Society and Information Technology in Second Life

Wednesdays, August 29 - December 12 , 2007, 4-6, SLT/PT, 7-9 pm ET on Berkman island in Second Life

 Course homepage - http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

 

Instructor: Scott MacLeod (not on Harvard's faculty) = Aphilo Aarde (in Second Life)

http://scottmacleod.com/papers.htm

 

Sep 26 2007 Soc and Info Tech in SL transcript

 

 

 

[15:58]  You: Let's go over to the amphitheater.

[15:59]  Boston Hutchinson: OK

[15:59]  You: How are things in Sherborn?

[16:00]  Boston Hutchinson: Fine, thanks. We just has some shrubs (mostly rhododendrons planted.

[16:00]  Boston Hutchinson: It's been a big project, and now they need to be watered!

[16:00]  You: Is S developing her interest in horticulture?

[16:01]  You: ...actively in your community?

[16:01]  You: She mentioned something about this in the summer?

[16:01]  Boston Hutchinson: Serena has been in the garden club here for many years, mostly for the people, but she's happy to be able to do some gardening too.

[16:02]  You: Sounds nice.

[16:02]  You: Did you see anything about Google developing a virtual world?

[16:02]  You: Here's an article.

[16:03]  Boston Hutchinson: Well we live in something of an oak and pine forest, under which we were pretending to grow grass. So now we've given up and replaced the gweeds with shrubs

[16:03]  You: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070924-google-testing-my-world-for-launch-later-this-year.html

[16:03]  Emuishere Boa is Offline

[16:03]  Annette Paster is Offline

[16:03]  You: And something from slashdot

[16:03]  Boston Hutchinson: Interesting!

[16:04]  You: http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/25/1437249

[16:05]  Jagger Valeeva is Online

[16:05]  You: I'm considering writing a classic ethnography of Harbin Hot Springs in northern Calif., and also modeling it in a virtual world.

[16:05]  You: Second Life would be a logical one, because it's one of the best, but if Google ...

[16:05]  You: Hello Andormeda!

[16:05]  You: Welcoem back . . .

[16:06]  You: develops a virtual world, it will have more resources.

[16:06]  Boston Hutchinson: I'm not familiar with the place. But I think you may have mentioned it before

[16:06]  Andromeda Mesmer: Hi Aphilo -- is the discussion /lecture on tonight?

[16:06]  Andromeda Mesmer: Hi Aphilo -- is the discussion /lecture on tonight?

[16:06]  Krysss Galatea is Online

[16:06]  You: Yes . . . we are just beginning.

[16:06]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Andromeda.

[16:06]  Andromeda Mesmer: hi Boston :)

[16:07]  Keane Koga is Online

[16:07]  Keane Koga is Online

[16:07]  Keane Koga is Offline

[16:07]  Juria Yoshikawa is Online

[16:07]  You: So, to continue from last week, about what was new toward the beginning of the information technology revolution:

[16:08]  You: There were two key factors:

[16:08]  You: The industrial structure of specific companies which are suppliers became networks of companies which develop knowledge of what they do best.

[16:09]  You: (Universities do the same).

[16:09]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[16:09]  Connected

[16:09]  You: Secondly, social networks also formed.

[16:09]  You: The world of silicon valley was made up of individuals

[16:09]  Barbie Starr is Offline

[16:10]  You: There was an ethos of "build your own company, and do your own thing).

[16:10]  You: People were required to sign confidentiality agreements.

[16:10]  You: But in Silicion Valley, these were limited to 6 months!

[16:10]  You: Otehrwise, you wouldn't find people to work for you.

[16:10]  Barbie Starr is Online

[16:10]  Andromeda Mesmer: I didn't know that!

[16:10]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[16:10]  You: The edge there for a while was shifting very quickly.

[16:11]  Connected

[16:11]  You: So in these social networks, people met after work to talk about their work.

[16:11]  Keane Koga is Online

[16:11]  You: The key thing was there was a process of excitement about work.

[16:11]  Krysss Galatea is Offline

[16:11]  Keane Koga is Offline

[16:11]  You: Engineers, students, and others would come together, and talk about creating their own companies.

[16:12]  You: This created a milieu of permeability.

[16:12]  You: Nothing was stable.

[16:12]  You: This milieu of permeability was the missing link to understanding the culture of silicon valley for a long time.

[16:13]  You: And it was documented by AnnaLee Saxenian, the Berkeley provessor who wrote "Regional Advantage" and "the New Argonauts."

[16:14]  You: (Boston - I think you had some questions/doubts about Saxenian's thesis last week - that Silicon Valley had an advantage, say, over the Boston area in the IT revolution.

[16:14]  You: Let's talk about that as we go, if you want.

[16:14]  You: Hello

[16:14]  You: Zizi

[16:14]  You: Come join us.

[16:14]  Zizi Preez: Hi Aphilo

[16:15]  Zizi Preez: Any idea how to get my arm to stop eating popcorn?>

[16:15]  You: We're having a class on Society and Information technology - how the information technology reovlution has developed.

[16:15]  You: http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

[16:15]  You: http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

[16:15]  Zizi Preez: ok... i wont interrupt

[16:15]  Boston Hutchinson: Yes. I think the software and hardware (microelectronics) developments were coming more from the east coast in the early days

[16:15]  Zizi Preez: have a nice evening

[16:15]  You have offered friendship to Zizi Preez

[16:16]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Zizi

[16:16]  You: I see . . .

[16:16]  You: Let's look at Saxenians work more closely in a while, Boston.

[16:16]  Zizi Preez is Offline

[16:17]  You: The explosion in companies in Silicon Valley in teh 1950s was unprecendented, and around the microchip...

[16:17]  Boston Hutchinson: But that's a subjective impression. I wasn't on the west coast until 1975, and then in LA.

[16:17]  You: Software . . . well, we'll look at some aspects, such as TCP/IP, and the Interent.

[16:18]  You: I think Saxenian does have the data, but it is an interpretation.

[16:18]  You: What's unique of the IT revoltion is synergy

[16:19]  You: Where 2+2 =5, not 4 - what comes out of the interaction

[16:19]  You: Why?

[16:19]  Juria Yoshikawa is Offline

[16:19]  You: Because putting things together whose added value is more than things separately

[16:20]  You: due to interactiion - added value comes fromt eh elements coming together in unique ways in the process.

[16:20]  You: the fact that S.V. culture, people and companies could toak to one another led to a milieu of innovation.

[16:21]  Kid Kuhn is Offline

[16:21]  You: =clust set of research cetners, companies, venturec ompanies, computer comanies, and labor market, and professional organizations, whith through interactions created synergy.

[16:21]  You: And despite the traffic, the congestion, and the otehr negative aspects of SV, people still keep going there.

[16:21]  You: Many get hooked and never get out.

[16:22]  You: And it was this 'machine' that created this revolution.

[16:22]  You: The japanese tried to reproduce this pattern unsuccessfuly.

[16:22]  You: Why?

[16:22]  You: Perhaps because it didn't emerge organically.

[16:23]  You: So the last stage of this revolution - GLOBAL NETWORKING

[16:23]  You: This involved connecting to other places aroudn teh world with the same synergy and generating capacity.

[16:23]  You: But this didn't happen in the same way as in Silicon Valley.

[16:24]  Perry Proudhon is Online

[16:24]  You: Electronic companies origitnally started it by producing chips in low cost companies, particualrly in SE Asia

[16:25]  You: What's unique about --- added value --- through synergy here is really the ability to add knowledge for profits.

[16:25]  You: What was critical about the global networking that occurred was the ability to connect around teh world, such as in Taiwan.

[16:25]  Krysss Galatea is Online

[16:25]  You: How do these networks work?

[16:26]  You: These networks are generally organized through immigrant entreprenuers.

[16:26]  You: Someone form India, China, or Taiwan comes with and electrical engineering degree, stays, learns a trade, creates a compnay,

[16:27]  You: and then reestablishes contact with their country.

[16:27]  You: Through personal connections, Silicon Valley has established a world wide network, but not to all places in the world.

[16:27]  You: It's a different production system - now world wide.

[16:27]  You: So, to summarize -

[16:28]  You: How the information technology revoltuion ended up as a new paradigm of technological and socioeconomic organization.

[16:28]  You: Paradigm-

[16:28]  Krysss Galatea is Offline

[16:28]  You: is a cluster of interrelated innovations, technologies, and managerial innovations.

[16:29]  You: This cluster is able to genereate new products and processes toward synergy and improving productivity.

[16:29]  You: In this paradigm, the 'system' needs all the parts to progress in every field to come together.

[16:30]  You: So this paradigm has 5 aspects

[16:30]  You: 1 Information generation and processing is the first significant aspect

[16:31]  You: 2 it's pervasive - it invades ad influences every domain of socioeconomic activity

[16:31]  You: 3 it's characterized by networking - mentalities companies, people - network - and create synergies, based around knowledge generatiion

[16:32]  Luna Bliss is Offline

[16:32]  You: 4 Flexibility is key - the system is such that it reorganizes, and reprograms its components without disintegration.

[16:33]  You: 5 The technological convergence that has occurred is an integrating system

[16:33]  You: it's an open system, not closing., and it's bounded only by technological developments.

[16:34]  You: This aspects of the information technological revolution seem to characterize all aspects of it, or do they?

[16:34]  Emuishere Boa is Online

[16:34]  You: What new developments can we think of which these characteristics may not describe?

[16:34]  You: Any thoughts?

[16:35]  You: What about places off the 'grid' as it were?

[16:35]  Andromeda Mesmer: Yes -- that for all this to work well, the state of the world economy and world banking system has to be reasonably healthy.

[16:35]  You: Thoughts?

[16:36]  Andromeda Mesmer: And also -- wireless is important for developing countries -- they skip at least a generation when they go directly to wireless.

[16:36]  You: Yes . . . but Benkler's these that there is a whole sphere of nonmarket infomration production might suggest the possibility for this system to be sustainable even in very different economic situations . . .

[16:36]  Andromeda Mesmer: Cell phones, laptops ...

[16:37]  You: "The Wealth of Networks: How Social Production Transforms Markets and Freedom" - by Benkeler (it's online).

[16:37]  You: Bnekler

[16:37]  You: Benkler

[16:37]  Boston Hutchinson: I just learned about a website that makes connection between microlenders and borrowers--direct, 1 to 1 connections.

[16:38]  Boston Hutchinson: http://www.kiva.org/

[16:38]  You: Cell phones, etc. are all part of the 4th and 5th aspects, I think, Andromeda . . .

[16:38]  You: part of an extensible system

[16:38]  You: Interesting Boston - fuerther integrating socioeconomic aspects of this revolution.

[16:38]  Boston Hutchinson: This seems to suggest that the information technology model is adding almost everyplace to the grid

[16:39]  You: But will it?

[16:39]  Parriah Janus is Offline

[16:39]  Andromeda Mesmer: I agree about the global system being quite flexible -- for example when Microsoft can't get the immigrant workers it says it needs, to come to the US, it sets up a campus in Vancouver, Canada.

[16:39]  You: 100 or 200 years from now, will anthropologists find places which have never seen teh web, thus making it a defining tool of 'civilazation'?

[16:39]  Andromeda Mesmer: If the companies cannot get the workers in the US for one reason or another-- they set up plans, rsearch faciliies -- elsewhere. So the system continues.

[16:40]  You: True, Andromeda, - it is pervasive.

[16:40]  Boston Hutchinson: There are still many places that are stuck--off the grid because of political problems.

[16:40]  You: this paradigm, that is.

[16:40]  You: True, Boston, and it's teh one laptop per child model that might possibly change that . . .

[16:41]  You: So how was this medium invented?

[16:41]  Andromeda Mesmer: There is going to be an undersea high-speed cable linking Cuba and Venezuela -- so even with the political problems, communications are increasing.

[16:41]  Parriah Janus is Online

[16:42]  You: Yes, A . . . new connections create interesting new potical challenges.

[16:42]  Boston Hutchinson: I'd worry more about Burma, North Korea, Darfur--places that are really isolated. Cuba and Venezuela are only isolated from the US, and not really on a personal level, only politically

[16:43]  You: So, we've covered, mostly, history, geography and actors, in terms of this paradigm shift.

[16:43]  Andromeda Mesmer: In a sense -- if reporters from outside can get in, and some stories can get out -- well, that is a start.

[16:43]  Boston Hutchinson: Yes

[16:44]  You: True, Boston, but even the Internet there - for example, through the global blogsphere - changes the contexts for countries that are quite repressive

[16:44]  Boston Hutchinson: That's the hope certainly. Whether it will happen and how long it takes, we don't know yet.

[16:45]  You: The Berkman Cetner for Internet and Society has helped make "Global Voices" happen- a kind of aggregator of blogs, which give glimpses into even countries like Burma, I think.

[16:45]  Andromeda Mesmer: Iran has some bloggers -- very careful ones, hide their identities -- but they exist.

[16:45]  You: Check out Global Voices

[16:46]  You: And suscribe to Harvard's Berkman Center for Internet and Society email list - for more interesting related views

[16:46]  Boston Hutchinson: It seems to be happening in a lot of places. On the other hand, I worry that globalization and the information economy might take power away from governments and give it to wealthy individuals. This appears to be the trend

[16:46]  Andromeda Mesmer: Well, more wealthy corporations -- to take the idea of the network -- a network of wealthy individuals.

[16:47]  You: It does help to create a first world and fourth world . . . but it does shift things around a lot.

[16:47]  Andromeda Mesmer: And unfortunately , Boston, I agree. Really wish I could disagree :(

[16:47]  You: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/home/

[16:48]  You: (And thanks to the Berkman Center for letting us have class here).

[16:48]  Boston Hutchinson: It may not be hopeless, since many of thos individuals are not all bad, but it's still not the ideal of a middle class world open to everyone

[16:48]  You: True

[16:48]  You: So a little more about teh link between the Information Revolution and social transformations.

[16:49]  You: The information technology revolution is important because a new kind of society has already emerged.

[16:49]  You: What was the social context in which the IT revoltuion helped to transform 1970s society into a new society.

[16:49]  You: ?

[16:50]  You: There are 3 interelated processes that led to this.

[16:50]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[16:50]  Connected

[16:50]  You: 1 The Information Technology revolution, which we've looked at in some detail

[16:50]  Andromeda Mesmer: The hippies, lots of attempts at getting neew social freedoms.

[16:50]  You: (See past transcripts, as well, Andromeda).

[16:50]  Andromeda Mesmer: Lag

[16:51]  You: Yes, counterculture was very signficant, in affecting values.

[16:51]  You: 2 There was a process of socioeconomic restructuring of capitalism, a "perestroika" - exactly

[16:52]  You: and 3 change in the values of society as a result of social movements and alternative cultures, which we've already just mentioned.

[16:52]  Jagger Valeeva is Offline

[16:52]  You: This included the 'mess' of the 1960s and 1970s = which equalis cultural change.

[16:53]  You: The Network Society is the result of all 3.

[16:53]  You: Neither technology comes first, nor society - they both create each otehr.

[16:53]  Boston Hutchinson: So the hippies grew up and created the Internet...

[16:54]  Parriah Janus is Offline

[16:54]  You: These three processes came together in history in the 1970s by ACCIDENT

[16:54]  You: There was no technological determism

[16:55]  You: Counterculture was helping to shape the values - there were a lot of countercultural types in Universites, and research centers, especially in the SF Bay ARea in the 1970s

[16:55]  Boston Hutchinson: Was it an accident?

[16:55]  You: So these 3 process come together -1 IT revoution, 2 perestroika, and 3 change in values

[16:55]  Boston Hutchinson: I wonder if the information revolution didn't actually play a major role in the socail revolutions-- starting with radio, then TV and air travel

[16:55]  You: through interaction

[16:56]  You: Yes, because they all happened indepdently, and their synergies are waht created something unique.

[16:56]  You: By coming together, 'bumping' - new forms of social organization emerge.

[16:57]  Arawn Spitteler is Online

[16:57]  Boston Hutchinson: But didn't the information revolution cause the others?

[16:57]  Andromeda Mesmer: The science fiction writer, Robert Heinlein, said that there were things that were completely unpredictable --

[16:57]  You: What is the process of socio-economic restructuring?

[16:57]  Andromeda Mesmer: like some of the changes in courting patterns, with the introduction of cars -- or

[16:58]  Andromeda Mesmer: The moon landing was predictable, but not that it would be seen live on TV, he said.

[16:58]  You: (Some explain Counterculture as emerging because (mostly) white middle class youth had time on their hands to think about civil rights and Vietam, and do something about them. This was independent of developments in IT, for example.)

[16:59]  Andromeda Mesmer: Also =-- getting drafted or the possibility -- tended to focus their minds ...

[16:59]  You: What was the process of socio-economic restructuring?

[16:59]  You: Yes

[16:59]  You: Systems are organized around means and goals.

[16:59]  Boston Hutchinson: Timothy Leary went to Mexico, probably following the lead of earlier Harvard researchers, and came back and started the social revolution, no?

[17:00]  You: When a system goes into crisis, some people want to change goals, and this is called revution.

[17:00]  Boston Hutchinson: That was really about information leaking out from a small elite to the general public.

[17:01]  You: It was a very complex reaction to the 1950s, in part, and it developed through protest in every western capital.

[17:01]  You: In part . . .

[17:02]  You: When a system goes into crisis and you don't want to change the goals, you change the means.

[17:02]  You: And in the 1970s, there was a quite substantial crisis.

[17:02]  Boston Hutchinson: And again, it was about new connections, much greater international communication., more air travel...reinforcing your point about the centrality of the information revolution.

[17:02]  You: (There was an even bigger crisis in the 1930s. And true Boston).

[17:03]  You: So at one point, the economic system couldnt' operate int eh 1970s - there was huge inflation.

[17:03]  You: Inflation was too high, and companies coulnd't calculate how to borrow and invest monies.

[17:04]  You: Prices were high too.

[17:04]  You: So, in the 1970s, the governemnta nd companeis developed strategies and poicies to set goals in order.

[17:04]  You: And they worked, iwthin the goals.

[17:04]  You: In parallel, the social system, "the "statist" one - with teh state at the center - tried restructuring and decomposed.

[17:05]  Andromeda Mesmer: Explain?

[17:05]  You: China also changed to socialism under captialism.

[17:05]  Boston Hutchinson: The Soviet Union decomposed?

[17:06]  Andromeda Mesmer: 1990

[17:06]  Andromeda Mesmer: But was decaying before that.

[17:06]  You: So, we're examaning a restructuring that went on int he 1970s in the US.

[17:07]  You: (The USSR disintegrated in 1989, finally, but this was in development in the 1970s).

[17:07]  You: So, to explain, economies are organized as a sytem - to make money.

[17:07]  You: Companies, private businesses do this through investment.

[17:08]  You: No money makeing, no development in the economy.

[17:08]  You: How do you make money out of a business?

[17:08]  You: 4 ways

[17:08]  You: 1 increasing productivity - how much output you generate per unit of input.

[17:09]  You: If it costs $10 to make a pair of shoes, their value should be more to make a profit.

[17:09]  You: So the output is more valuable than the input - and

[17:09]  You: this is achieved by brains, technology and organization.

[17:10]  You: Without profit, there is no economy.

[17:10]  You: Productivity is the bottom line.

[17:10]  Boston Hutchinson: It's also achieved by exploiting the workers

[17:10]  Andromeda Mesmer: or finding cheaper workers outside the country.

[17:10]  Boston Hutchinson: You can't make shoes for $10 if you pay good wages.

[17:11]  You: 2 Another way the economy develops is through more efficient management - which reflects what you just said.

[17:11]  You: (we'll get to your points)

[17:11]  You: A 3rd way for an economy to devleop -

[17:11]  You: lower costs - i.e. the prduct is the same, but making it takes less resources.

[17:12]  You: i.e. you use the same aboutn of leather, and chemicals, but cheaply - less to labor, more damage to the environment, etc.

[17:12]  You: So, here increasing power of management over labor is key.

[17:12]  Boston Hutchinson: What about creating a monopoly? Or finding ways to manipulate and control your customers?

[17:13]  Jon Seattle is Offline

[17:13]  You: And 4, expanding markets is the other way to maki money out of business

[17:13]  You: (True, Boston).

[17:13]  You: In expanding market,s you get more consuemrs per unit of what one sells, so product can be cheaper.

[17:14]  You: What happened in the mid 1970s, in the US and in the world - companies and governments proceeded in a way that altogether increased productivity, lowered costs, and expanded markets.

[17:14]  You: How did they do this?

[17:14]  You: Through 4 mechanisms.

[17:14]  You: 1 Much better information technology.

[17:14]  Rajah Yalin is Offline

[17:15]  You: 2 Flexibility in management, work, the distribution system, and in captial markets.

[17:15]  You: Flexibility was largely connect to introducting new forms based on networking rather than vertical organization

[17:16]  You: For example, there were reapid feed back loops between management and workers

[17:17]  You: 3. If one can extract more work from employees, more work for less money, there's a change in teh power relationship between management adn labor. And this happened - there has been a dramatic decline in unionaization over the past 40 years, and especially int he 1970s.

[17:17]  Boston Hutchinson: This is all true, but the changes also led to junk bonds, raiding of pension funds and other problems in the system.

[17:17]  You: In the late 1950s, unions made up 34% of the work force

[17:18]  You: And in 2000 uniions made up 13.5% of the work force

[17:18]  You: And 9% in the private sector

[17:18]  You: And in finance and hight tech, it's less thatn 2%

[17:18]  Boston Hutchinson: Yes, that's a power shift from labor to capital

[17:18]  You: Yes, Boston . . . these things occurred.

[17:19]  You: Lastly - 4 - the media helped reshape production

[17:19]  You: through the myth, ideology and politics, and historical process of globaliztion

[17:20]  You: This view suggested that money can circulate in global markets around the world.

[17:20]  You: Companies invested in assembly lines in favorable markets.

[17:20]  You: And under globalization, companeis could sell everywhere.

[17:20]  Boston Hutchinson: Yes, it seems like globalization of capital is unstoppable

[17:20]  You: But this is an unequal process

[17:20]  Boston Hutchinson: for better or worse--both no doubt

[17:21]  You: For example, high tech sells in India, but Indian textiles don't sell as well in US.

[17:21]  Andromeda Mesmer: Well, Malaysia did stop the money from leaving the country, while it ws recovering from the Asian financial crisis --

[17:21]  You: Yes, it's a very complex process, that changes the world rapidly

[17:21]  You: but only for a short while, Andromeda - companies don't want to invest in countries where they can't get their money out.

[17:22]  Andromeda Mesmer: The Latin Americans are trying to get away from the IMF and set up their own bank to lend money --

[17:22]  You: So, under globalization, markets expanded dramatically.

[17:22]  You: Yes

[17:22]  Daisyblue Hefferman is Online

[17:22]  You: And globalizaiton lowered the cost of production relative to price.

[17:23]  You: Comapnies are always looking for the most favorable conditions.

[17:23]  Perry Proudhon is Offline

[17:23]  You: Let's take a five minute bathroom break . . .

[17:23]  You: See you around 8:30 ET

[17:23]  Boston Hutchinson: OK

[17:27]  Andromeda Mesmer: Aphilo, i have to leave now ... have another appointment to go to.

[17:27]  Andromeda Mesmer: it has been very enjoyable :)

[17:27]  Boston Hutchinson: Sorry you have to leave, Andromeda. Hope to see you next time

[17:28]  Andromeda Mesmer: I hope so too --

[17:29]  You: Hello Boston

[17:29]  You: By Andromeda

[17:29]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Aphilo. We lost Andromed, unfortunately.

[17:29]  You: Hopefully, she'll come back next time.

[17:30]  You: So, information technology is critical for networking and globalization.

[17:30]  You: These wouldn't exist with IT

[17:30]  You: They both require fast coimputng, as well as telecommuncations.

[17:31]  You: And for all points to all points.

[17:31]  You: Without advanced information systems, you couldn't have a dense network of air transport on which the global economy is based.

[17:32]  Boston Hutchinson: I don't think the air transport network is really so dense yet

[17:32]  You: Air transport is dependent on information technology - cargo shipping and containers - there is no room for miscalucations

[17:32]  Boston Hutchinson: the air traffic control is still fairly primitive

[17:32]  You: It's a very complicated gloabl network based on precise systems.

[17:33]  You: You have more knowledge than I do about these, but the air system is very extensive, in all 200 or so countries.

[17:33]  You: There is much room for improvement.

[17:34]  You: So globalization changed the nature of production

[17:34]  Boston Hutchinson: yes. it's huge. I'm speaking as an engineer. It's been possible for many years. to take it a lot farther, but it evolves very slowly.

[17:34]  Sean18 McCarey is Online

[17:34]  You: Yes . . .

[17:34]  You: Cultural Change

[17:35]  You: New ideas gave rise to new forms of civil life.

[17:35]  You: Many of the things taken for granted int eh 1970s, would have caused tremendous problems 30 years ago.

[17:35]  You: It started at Berkeley in 1964, one can say, with the free speech movement.

[17:35]  You: And in Paris in 1969.

[17:36]  You: And it happened everywhere, in all western capitals.

[17:36]  You: What happened?

[17:36]  You: There were diverse protests.

[17:36]  You: Freedom of the person vis-a-vis the system was at stake.

[17:36]  You: It ws sometimes selfish

[17:37]  You: There was a view, for example, that nobody is going to give me orders.

[17:37]  Boston Hutchinson: It was very concrete and personal...the draft!

[17:37]  You: And this cultural change blew up an entire system of authority on which all systems are based.

[17:37]  You: Were you drafted?

[17:38]  You: The number of ideas that emerged changed the way society thinks.

[17:38]  You: And something deeper occurred, as well.

[17:38]  Boston Hutchinson: No. I worried a lot, had a student deferment, and then got a number that was high enough to be safe.

[17:39]  You: Glad that worked out for you.

[17:39]  You: This cultural change movved into institutions, and it affected voters.

[17:39]  You: How fundamental was the change?

[17:39]  Boston Hutchinson: But the war caused the draft, the draft caused the portests (throw a little hippie culture in there too) and that all caused rapid social change

[17:39]  You: 1. Women became equal as a standard.

[17:40]  You: 2 Environmentally, respecting the balance of nature became signficant.

[17:40]  You: Yes . . . .

[17:40]  Bruce Flyer is Online

[17:40]  You: And 3rd, individual freedom became very sigficant.

[17:40]  You: "I want to develop my own thing".

[17:40]  You: Hi Bruce!

[17:41]  Bruce Flyer: good evening gentlemen

[17:41]  Boston Hutchinson: Didn't the need for individual freedom arise out of the conflicts in society?

[17:41]  You: (I'll post the transcript to http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

[17:41]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Bruce. Nice to se you again.

[17:41]  Bruce Flyer: thank you Boston, you too

[17:41]  You: Yes, and it reflected a libertarian tendency in this country.

[17:42]  You: But in the 1970s, the libertarian quality became denatured.

[17:42]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[17:42]  Connected

[17:42]  You: The personal computer idea, for example, cam from a culutre that said"I want something for me", but this took shape in individual software

[17:42]  Boston Hutchinson: I think we were all happy to put on the IBM suits and live in ticky tacky houses in the suburbs until the draft scared us and Tim Leary told us to drop out

[17:42]  You: which everybody could have.

[17:42]  You: :)

[17:43]  You: And Indvidual knowledge came from a culture which valued Individualism as a supreme value.

[17:43]  You: And this cultural change happened very rapdily in 3-4 years - 1968-72.

[17:44]  You: So these three factors - 1 the IT revolution, 2 perestroika - restructuring of the US economy, and 3 cultural change interacted and resulted in the Network Society

[17:44]  You: SOCIAL OUTCOME

[17:45]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[17:45]  Boston Hutchinson: I was a student then. I dont remember much about individualism. Just the war, the draft, and the hippie movement

[17:45]  You: The internet

[17:45]  Connected

[17:46]  You: These processes of hstory and culture and use of technology gave rise to that which symbolizes this transition - the Internet

[17:46]  You: (People were doing their own thing, I think - I was young at teh time.

[17:46]  You: The economic dimensions of the Internet and WWW came later.

[17:47]  You: The Internet makes the transition between this revolution and now.

[17:47]  You: SOCIAL HISTORY OF THE INTERNET

[17:47]  You: So I'd like to start to look at the social history of the internet.

[17:48]  You: And I draw on, in particular, Janet Abbate's "Inventing the Internet" - MIT 1999.

[17:48]  You: The Internet is a global network of computer networks that have the ability to talk to each other (this is the tricky part) and reroute messages through alternative paths when one path is blocked.

[17:49]  You: There are an infinite number of alternative paths.

[17:49]  You: [Not all comptuer networks are in the Internet - e.g. global financial markets.]

[17:49]  You: And the internet has a long and fascinating history.

[17:49]  You: It was first formed in 1969.

[17:50]  Bruce Flyer: routers are a form of distributed artificial intelligence

[17:50]  Boston Hutchinson: It has the flexibility of the many nodes, but it's still a client server heirarchical model

[17:50]  You: And today's internet - where we surf and enjoy - dates from 1994-95

[17:50]  You: A signficant lapse of time occurred in those 25 years

[17:50]  Bruce Flyer: what was the event marking the beginning in a969?

[17:50]  Gayle Cabaret is Offline

[17:51]  You: True, Bruce

[17:51]  You: Yes, Boston...

[17:51]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[17:51]  Bruce Flyer: i thought it dated back to WWII era

[17:51]  Bruce Flyer: i thought it dated back to WWII era

[17:51]  Connected

[17:51]  Boston Hutchinson: peer-to-peer hasn't really happened yet. That will engender new revolutions

[17:51]  You: 5 Universities in the West transmitted the first digital letters

[17:51]  You: It was very slow and exciting.

[17:52]  Bruce Flyer: but how can p2p work if most of us have dynamic IP addresses?

[17:52]  You: That devleoped out of TCP / IP, and comes later in this story.

[17:52]  You: Boston ?

[17:53]  Boston Hutchinson: that's a major inconvenience, but not an insurmountable obstacle. Computers with permanent addresses can frovide a service (like DNS) to solve the problem

[17:53]  You: Yes . . .

[17:54]  You: There's a popular stoy about how the Itnernet started.

[17:54]  You: And I'll mention it briefly before the close of tonight. (I'm in a cafe which closes at 6pm PST, so need to get out).

[17:55]  Bruce Flyer: ah, real life!

[17:55]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[17:55]  Connected

[17:55]  You: The story is that the internet is military technolgoy to prevent collapse of communciations in case of a nuclear attack.

[17:55]  You: That's false

[17:56]  Boston Hutchinson: that wouldnt work. first thing that goes in a nuclear attack is all the computers and all the wires

[17:56]  Boston Hutchinson: EMP

[17:56]  You: The Internet started i an innovate research agency in 1958, called ARPA - advance research projects agency.

[17:56]  You: in response to Soviet advancement.

[17:56]  You: And it was a way to mobilize the intellectural resrouces of the academic community to build superior technoloyg.

[17:57]  You: Yes . . :)

[17:57]  Bruce Flyer: Internet II seems not to be getting much attention recently

[17:57]  You: It was a very samll group of people in ARPA - they were also working on nuclear subs, and at NASA

[17:58]  You: They received Peanuts money in Pentagon terms, but a huge sum for an academic project

[17:58]  You: And ARPA had a reputation for starting projects with almost complete academic freedom.

[17:59]  You: Well, let's leave it here tonight.

[17:59]  Bruce Flyer: thank you both!

[17:59]  You: I'll post this transcript.

[17:59]  Boston Hutchinson: OK. Thanks!

[17:59]  You: Glance at previous transcripts for a review.

[17:59]  You: http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

[17:59]  You: You're welcome.

[17:59]  You: Nice to see you.

[18:00]  Bruce Flyer: bye Aphilo

[18:00]  Boston Hutchinson: Have a good trip back east.

[18:00]  You: Must go . . . see you niext week if not before.

[18:00]  You: Thanks :)