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Oct 3 2007 Soc and Info Tech in SL class transcript

Page history last edited by PBworks 15 years, 9 months ago

Society and Information Technology in Second Life

Wednesdays, August 29 - December 12 , 2007, 4-6, SLT/PT, 7-9 pm ET on Berkman island in Second Life

 Course homepage - http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

 

Instructor: Scott MacLeod (not on Harvard's faculty) = Aphilo Aarde (in Second Life)

http://scottmacleod.com/papers.htm

 

Oct 3 2007 Soc and Info Tech in SL class transcript

 

16:02 You: That's better . . .

16:02 You: Hello All

16:02 You: A vehicle, too!

16:03 Boston Hutchinson: I'm glad it's working. Hi again!

16:03 You: Out of the sandbox and into the amphitheater!

16:03 You: Yes . . .

16:03 Boston Hutchinson: I wonder if we can move the car?

16:04 Can't reposition -- permission denied

16:04 Juicy Jeeps ~ Passion Fruit: Sorry Honey ~ Only My Owner Can Drive Me ;)~

16:04 Juicy Jeeps ~ Passion Fruit: Sorry Honey ~ Only My Owner Can Drive Me ;)~

16:04 You: I get a message saying "Can't reposition"

16:04 You: and another "only my owner can drive me"!

16:05 Boston Hutchinson: I tried "ride it", but that didn't seem to work

16:05 You: Hmmm...

16:05 You: Hello Andromeda!

16:05 Andromeda Mesmer: HO - back !

16:05 You: Welcome back . . .

16:06 You: the Internet has a long and fascinating history!

16:06 You: Hello Ralph!

16:06 You: How are thigs?

16:06 Andromeda Mesmer: Hi, Ralph!

16:06 You: things?

16:06 Boston Hutchinson: Hi Ralph

16:06 You: We're having a class here and you're welcome to join.

16:07 Juria Yoshikawa is Offline

16:07 You: We're talking about "society and information technology"

16:07 Ralph Radius: Thank you.

16:07 You: http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com is the web site.

16:07 You: Tonight we'll talk about the history of the Internet.

16:07 Andromeda Mesmer: Hi Boston

16:07 You: That which makes SL communication possible.

16:08 You: The Internet's history is long and fascinating.

16:08 Boston Hutchinson: Hi Andromeda.

16:08 You: Data was transmitted first over a network digitally in 1969,

16:08 You: And today's Internet, where we surf and enjoy dates from 94-95

16:09 You: So there's a signficant lapse of time since its inception.

16:09 Jon Seattle is Offline

16:09 You: .... and its popular use .. .

16:10 You: (And stepping back a little - what's interesting to me about conversations in SL is the possible to share ideas in multiple directions, and follow multiple lines of reasoning all at once due to group chat).

16:11 You: So I encourage you to share your thoughts - I suspect that all of you have knowledge about the Internet that I don't.

16:11 You: We'll be looking at some key events in the process of its development, though.

16:11 You: And its always interesting to engage different points of view.

16:12 Andromeda Mesmer: Well, just want to point out that it is the limitation of NO voice, that allows -- perhaps more time to think, and also engage in multiple conversations ...

16:12 You: I agree, Andromeda, - and not everyone has access to voice on their computer - so this new technology

16:13 You: group chat in typing in SL opens new forms of conversation, due to the technology itself.

16:13 Andromeda Mesmer: It also alllows the deaf to participate fully, and to actually be at a bit of an advantage, because they generallly type a bit faster and better.

16:13 You: I've found that to be a rich experience ever since Charlie Nesson's class here and at Harvard in the fall of 2006.

16:14 You: Yes. . . .please invite friends who might be advantaged by these technologies.

16:14 You: ... such as deaf friends . . . I encourage at large particiaption here!

16:14 You: So there's a popular story about how the internet started.

16:15 You: The story, and it's false - is that the internet was miliatary technology designed to prevent collapse of communications in the case of nuclear attach.

16:16 Andromeda Mesmer: Aphilo, another person coming in a minute or so.

16:16 You: The internet actually has its origins in an innovate research agency in 1958

16:16 You: Great . . . well I wait a little . . .

16:16 You: I'll

16:16 Boston Hutchinson: Well, it probably was partly intended to survive an attack, but not a nuclear one, since the wires and computers wouldn't survive.

16:16 Annette Paster is Offline

16:16 Glenn Obolensky is Online

16:17 Andromeda Mesmer: IT was supposed to be a way to re-route communication if some nodes were gone.

16:17 Andromeda Mesmer: But you are right, Boston -- and not to mention the EM effects ...

16:17 You: The idea of distributive communicative networks occurred in part in response to the threat of nuclear attack in the 1950s . . . but the military didn't do it.

16:18 You: EM?

16:18 You: And it wasn't designed as such.

16:18 Andromeda Mesmer: Electromagnetic pulses which fry transistors, delicate elecronics.

16:18 Andromeda Mesmer: Hi, Geda!

16:19 Ralph Radius: Hi Geda

16:19 Geda Hax: Hi there , sorry for being late .

16:19 You: ARPa began it (Advanced Research Projects Agency) - in response to Soviet advancement.

16:19 You: Hello Geda!

16:19 Boston Hutchinson: Hi Geda.

16:19 Geda Hax: Hi all ;)

16:19 Eon Berkman is Online

16:19 You: We're talking about the history of the internet in a class on "Society and Information TEchnology"

16:20 Geda Hax: Interesting , please go on .

16:20 You: http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com - at large particiaption is welcome.

16:20 You: Hello Eon!

16:20 Ralph Radius: Hi Eon

16:20 Boston Hutchinson: Hi Eon.

16:20 Eon Berkman: aphilo

16:20 Eon Berkman: i have a small group meeting in the trial area.

16:20 You: Data was transmitted first over a network digitally in 1969, 16:08 You: And today's Internet, where we surf and enjoy dates from 94-95

16:21 You: Adn the internet's beginnings really originate as an attempt to mobilize the intellectual resources of the academic world to build superior technology

16:21 You: ((in response to Sovoiety advancement).

16:22 You: It was a small group of people at ARPA

16:22 You: They're were also working on nuclear subs and on NASA related projects.

16:22 Jon Seattle is Online

16:23 You: And they received 'peanuts' money at ARPA for this early entowrking project in the late 1050s.

16:23 You: Hello Magnolia

16:23 Ralph Radius: Hi Magnolia

16:23 Magnolia Beaumont: hello

16:23 You: We're talking about the history of the internet, and you're welcome to join.

16:23 Boston Hutchinson: Hi Magnolia

16:24 You: ... relative to monies that went to military projects. But for a small group of academics in the late

16:24 Magnolia Beaumont: I was worried I was interrupting. Unfortunately, it seems my ride is already here! Bah! But thank you for the invitation...maybe nexttime...

16:24 You: 1950s, the money they got was significant.

16:24 You: OK - http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com is the web site - at large participation is welcome.

16:25 You: ARPA at the time had a reputaation for starting projects with almost complete academic freedom.

16:26 You: And the IPTO (Information Protocol Technology Office) conceived of the idea of exploring computer netowrking.

16:26 You: But there were two big problems (late 1950s)

16:26 You: and 2 communication software

16:26 You: 1 Transmissions technologies

16:27 You: Transmission technologies existed in concept

16:27 You: independently developed by 2 people in the 1950s.

16:27 You: 1 Paul Baran

16:28 You: and in Britain 2 Donald Davies

16:28 You: Baran was working at the Rand corporation in Santa Monica, which at the time was one of the most sophisticated think tanks.

16:29 You: The Rand corporation was working ona project ot organize a communication system invulnerable to a nuclear attack.

16:29 You: How?

16:29 You: Make it placeless -

16:29 You: So that it's nowhere or everywhere.

16:30 You: In this conception, there is no command and control center, and a huge number of nodes.

16:30 You: The idea that all nodes could reorganize originated in 1954.

16:30 You: The geniuses at the Pentago rejected and didn't implement Baran's ideas.

16:31 You: They didn't get approved., but Paul Baran did invent and develop the idea of packet switching.

16:31 You: And packet switching is what makes the Internet work.

16:32 You: In parallel and without knowing about Baran, Donald Davies, a physicist i a leading British physics Center - the National Physics Centre (until the 1970s)

16:32 You: also developed the idea of packet switching.

16:32 You: And the UK protocol office turned it down.

16:33 You: So Britain could have started the Internet.

16:33 Champler Snook is Offline

16:33 You: And in the late 1970s Britain went into the INtenret, and bought American tehcnology.

16:34 You: So we have the IPTO (Information Protocol Technology Office), and Baran and Davies.

16:34 You: (Please add in and share ideas, if you wish. Conversation in SL in potentially rich when . . . )

16:35 You: In 1967, in Nashville Tennessee

16:35 You: people in the defense department realized they still didn't have the proper technology that would be invulnerable to a nuclear attack.

16:36 You: And they remembered Baran, and asked "Who is this guy?

16:36 You: That's how the Defense department found Baran's proposal.

16:37 You: So the defense department took the packet switching idea.

16:37 You: And in 1969, ARPANET - Who were these people? - was built

16:37 You: by a group of computer scientists circulating between major Universities.

16:38 You: MIT, UCLA, Stnaford, Univ. of Utha, Berkeley, Univ of Cal, Santa Barbara.

16:38 You: These computer scientists were working from time to time in other reserach centers.

16:39 You: At RAnd, and at SRI - Stanford Research Institute, then Stanford Industrial Park, then, SRI . . .

16:40 You: BBN

16:40 You: And some of them at a small acoustic engineering firm in the Boston area - BBN - a spinroff from MIT - developed

16:40 You: Bulletin Board Network

16:41 You: And they created a network.

16:41 Ralph Radius: Hi Andrax

16:41 You: And all of these scientists brought in graduate students to work.

16:41 andrax Anvil: hi

16:42 You: So the origins of the Intenret lie in Big Science from Univ and in Defense Dept money

16:42 You: Hi Andrax

16:42 Bruce Flyer is Online

16:42 Luna Bliss is Offline

16:42 You: But doing what?

16:42 You: They didn't know!

16:42 Champler Snook is Online

16:43 You: They were working on networks, but they were very simple, and the Internet wasn't in any way envisioned.

16:43 You: Hello Amaya!

16:43 Boston Hutchinson: Hi Bruce

16:43 Bruce Flyer: good evening everyone

16:43 You: They came together to share computing time by moving data between computers.

16:43 You: Hello Bruce

16:43 Ralph Radius: Hi Bruce

16:43 Bruce Flyer: hi Ralph

16:44 Geda Hax: good evening Brunce

16:44 Geda Hax: *Bruce

16:44 Bruce Flyer: hi Geda

16:44 You: ( I will post this transcript to http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com - for folks who weren't here from the beginning).

16:44 Bruce Flyer: :-)

16:44 You: And there are past transcripts there, as well as topics.

16:45 You: So this sharing of computing time and passing data between computers led by 1972

16:45 You: to the first demonstration of ARPANET in Washington DC.

16:45 Parriah Janus is Online

16:45 You: ARPANET was operational campus-wide and with links to Geneva and London then -

16:45 You: and it worked!

16:46 You: ARPANET said they were not really military, - so they decided to privatize.

16:46 You: They offered it to AT&T

16:47 You: which decided that it didn't have commercial application, and was thus left in the hands of computer scientists

16:47 You: Get serious :)

16:47 You: It was serious for Unviersities.

16:47 You: Scientists saw the potential of a global network.

16:47 You: The problem was with communication protocols.

16:48 You: ...which are common programs for comptuers to talk to one another.

16:48 You: The best students were put onto it.

16:48 You: ... in the Networking Working Group

16:48 You: And in this group there were 4 key people

16:48 You: Vint Cerf from Stanford and Bob Kahn

16:49 Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

16:49 Connected

16:49 You: And Steve Crocker from USC

16:49 You: and Jon Postel at UCLA (and he had a degree of moral authority in the Networking Working Group)

16:50 You: And these 4 people ultimately contributed significantly to designing Internet protocols and TCP/IP

16:50 You: with University of Southern California and UCLA students.

16:50 You: There was also a California - MIT connection.

16:51 You: Cerf _ the self proclaimed "Father of the Internet" went to the IPTO

16:51 Teresa Cinquetti is Offline

16:51 You: (Information Protocol Technology Office)

16:51 You: and met Paul Baran

16:51 You: Baran (is the corret spelling)

16:51 You: And from 1973 to 1979, they published a series of papers on TCP/IP

16:52 You: on which the Internet is based today.

16:52 You: These protocols allow networks to talk with one another.

16:52 You: By and large, by the end of the 1970s, all the work was done, and the Internet could operate.

16:52 You: So the Defense Department started to get serious.

16:53 You: Over 80% of the use of these early networks was e-mail - these networks were used for personal use from the beginning.

16:53 You: And the most popular email lists in the 1970s were

16:54 You: the San Francisco Lovers of Science Fiction list

16:54 You: and 2) the Marijuana Procurement list

16:54 You: :)

16:54 Teresa Cinquetti is Online

16:54 Sarasvati Kohime is Offline

16:55 You: So there was a significant degree of grass roots particiaption (pun intended) shaping the beginnings of the Internet.

16:55 You: IN 1983, the defense department decided to split ARPANET into 2.

16:55 You: There was 1) Milnet - military network - with an email system for units.

16:56 You: and 2) ARPANET internet - for research and civilian purposes.

16:56 You: And the defense department decided to transfer most of these networks to the NSF - the National Science Foundation.

16:57 You: In 1990, the civilian side of the NSF - which controleled the internet only for a short period -

16:57 You: received a commission with a plan to privatize.

16:57 You: And in 1995, the Internet was privatized.

16:58 You: So much of the beginnings of the Internet thus far was shaped partly by a top down approach.

16:58 You: On the other hand, there was a grass roots system

16:59 You: the countercultural movement that saw these early networks as an instrument of freedom and alternative lving.

16:59 You: And these people were also much the same as Universtiy students

17:00 You: And they made significant contributions to the development of the internet, as we'll see. So Science, the military and counterculture all created the Internet.

17:01 You: So let's take a 5 minute break in a minute, before looking at some of the individual contributions folks made

17:01 Bruce Flyer: someday we on Berkman Island may be remembered as pioneers too

17:01 You: Thoughts, observations, comments?

17:01 You: Yes, SL and virtual worlds are ripe with potential

17:01 Andromeda Mesmer: I have trouble thinking of myself as a historical figure -- but maybe :)

17:02 Andromeda Mesmer: junior supporting role?

17:02 You: And the Berkman Center for Internet and Society, and the envisioning there by folks like Charlie Nesson and others, may well be far reaching, with regard to the law, and well as democracy.

17:03 You: The internet is so open to innovation, and we can all produce information with great ease, that it's a remarkable time

17:03 Andromeda Mesmer: I expect you know, there are many SL organizations for lawyers inSL, and also some interesting lawsuits.

17:04 You: There are a lot of instances where individuals have single-handedly wrote something for the WEb, and it changes it profoundly - Tim-Berners-Lee, for example, and the list is deep

17:04 Bruce Flyer: are there any academic journals here yet?

17:04 You: Yes . . . Charlie Nesson is holding a class at Harvard now that is

17:04 Geda Hax: From a business perspective , I can tell you that the company I work for , is seriously encouraging us to experience metaverse concept .... day by day we are having more events here

17:05 You: is explroign some of these questions, and he's already held a number of mock trials to look at the relation between SL terms of service contracts, and US law.

17:05 You: fascinating questions.

17:05 Bruce Flyer: where is metaverse concept??

17:05 Geda Hax: sl is a metaverse

17:05 Meryl Villota is Online

17:05 You: Interesting

17:05 Bruce Flyer: a universe of universes?

17:06 Andromeda Mesmer: There is in some cases, a difference of opinion between US law and the law in other countries -- for example the casinos got completley banned inSL

17:06 You: The metaverse can be thought of as all virtual worlds together.

17:06 Bruce Flyer: i would like to work for a company so progressive i think!

17:06 Geda Hax: we have more than 30 islands already

17:06 You: neil Stephenson coined the term in "Snow Crash" to talk of a virtual world he envisioned.

17:06 Andromeda Mesmer: Neverheless, online casinos inSL were still very small, and they are completely legal in most jurisdictions.

17:06 You: Which then Second Life made "real"

17:07 You: really virtual :)

17:07 You: Geda

17:07 Geda Hax: yep

17:07 You: have you seen the virtual world's conference coming up this weekend in San Jose

17:07 You: ?

17:07 Robyn Proto is Online

17:07 Geda Hax: I heard its coming

17:08 Bruce Flyer: tks

17:08 Geda Hax: yw

17:08 You: Security is a serious problem in virtual worlds . . .but

17:08 Geda Hax: exactly

17:08 You: http://www.virtualworlds2007.com/

17:09 You: But people are making money in them.

17:09 You: anshe chung, a German businessman, is one of the most successful entrepreneurs in SL

17:09 Andromeda Mesmer: Horrible security problems -- griefing even on Berkman Island.

17:09 Geda Hax nods

17:09 You: And problems with inventory control, as well.

17:10 You: Anshe Chung estimated at the SL conference in Chicago in late August

17:10 You: that it takes his company 3 people days a week to account for lost inventory in SL.

17:10 You: !

17:10 Geda Hax: oh

17:11 Geda Hax: no confidential information can be used here ....unfortunetly

17:11 You: But let's take a five minute break, before returning to ARPANET and a node at UC Berkeley

17:11 Geda Hax: ok then

17:11 You: True, at this point . .

17:11 You: 5 minutes . . .

17:11 Geda Hax: ok

17:11 Andromeda Mesmer: Those 3 people are probably paid good money in RL terms , and that is something she would not have to do if SL did 'ts job properly.

17:12 Geda Hax: true andromeda

17:12 Geda Hax: excuse me , will walk around

17:12 Bruce Flyer: whose hot rod?

17:12 Andromeda Mesmer: Or fly around -- :)

17:12 Geda Hax: yep

17:13 Bruce Flyer: can we go for a spin?

17:13 Andromeda Mesmer: I'll take a 5 minute break in RL --

17:14 Ralph Radius: It belongs to a guy named Ysiad Noreiga

17:14 Bruce Flyer: the menu choice as not sit but "ride it"

17:14 Bruce Flyer: i am afraid i might not know how to get back here

17:15 Bruce Flyer: might begin a law suit

17:15 Boston Hutchinson: It doesnt seem to be usable. I tried to move it earl;ier

17:15 Ralph Radius: I have some freebies. Anyone want a blimp?

17:15 Bruce Flyer: virtual carjacking?

17:16 You decline Clanger's inventions, Clangers Inventions (93, 183, 36) from A group member named Jenn Hienrichs.

17:16 Boston Hutchinson: I wonder if virtual world software can be made secure enough to protect against inventory problems

17:16 Meryl Villota is Offline

17:16 Robyn Proto is Offline

17:17 Robyn Proto is Online

17:17 Boston Hutchinson: We get used to bad software with current operating system vulnerabilities,

17:17 Bruce Flyer: can you demo a blimp so I know how it works?

17:17 Boston Hutchinson: many of which could be prevented

17:17 Geda Hax: thanks

17:17 You: I think TCP?IP was designed as an open system

17:17 Boston Hutchinson: but i suspect there are limits to the security that is possible

17:18 You: TCP/IP Transmission Control Protocol/ Internet Protocol

17:18 Ralph Radius: Just rez it and right click and then choose Ride.

17:18 Ralph Radius: Then use key contols.

17:18 You: the communication protocols which still make the internet work

17:18 Geda Hax: what was that Raph?

17:18 Boston Hutchinson: Nice blimp, Ralph!

17:18 You: so securing virtual worlds on top of this is potentially very difficult.

17:19 Ralph Radius gave you BlimpShip8 logo.

17:19 Geda Hax: ahh I see it now

17:19 Geda Hax: there he goes

17:19 Bruce Flyer: i see the blimp! cool!

17:19 Ralph Radius: That's my furry alter ego but you can put your own photo on it.

17:20 Geda Hax waves to Ralph

17:20 Bruce Flyer: brb

17:20 Bruce Flyer is Offline

17:20 Boston Hutchinson: It would make a very interesting software engineering discussion, to figure out what are the theoretical limits to security

17:20 You: There was one group/company at the SL conference that was working on these issues, but I think they will be problematic for a while.

17:20 Ralph Radius: Ralph loves to show off. :)

17:20 You: Yes . . .

17:20 Geda Hax: security is key

17:20 Geda Hax: I agree with you Boston

17:21 You: Wher'e's the blimp?

17:21 You: Hello Glenn!

17:21 You: Welcome

17:21 Boston Hutchinson: yes, Geda, and the O/S people don't seem to be willing to get serious about it

17:21 Geda Hax: surely people are working more secure metaverse for corporate uses

17:21 You: Very nice . . . :)

17:21 Bruce Flyer is Online

17:21 Geda Hax: well, they have to ...sooner or later

17:21 Glenn Obolensky: Hi folks, just looking around

17:21 Geda Hax: Hi Glenn

17:22 You: SL had numerious corporations buy virtual land, and still many are here, but finding how to use virtual worlds, as well as how to make them secure

17:22 You: aare challenging problems.

17:22 Boston Hutchinson: I think most companies are just jumping in to what's here, like SL, and not doing anything that requires security

17:22 You: A foot hold to start . . .

17:22 Geda Hax: hrm

17:23 Glenn Obolensky: Am I interrupting?

17:23 You: So in 1978-1979

17:23 Bruce Flyer: we look a lot alike, Glenn :-)

17:23 Glenn Obolensky: You got the nicer shirt

17:23 Boston Hutchinson: Hi Glenn.

17:23 Bruce Flyer: lol

17:23 You: We're having a class here on Society and information technology, -at-large partcipation is welcome

17:24 Boston Hutchinson: Hey, you guys are twins

17:24 You: http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com is the website, and I'll post the transcript.

17:24 Glenn Obolensky: I picked up Snow Crash at Goodwill- what a book!

17:24 Bruce Flyer: two chips off the same algorthm

17:24 You: Other transcripts are posted as well.

17:24 You: So in 1978-79 students at Berkeley

17:25 You: designed software to connect ARPANET and USENET

17:25 You: ARPANET was the forerunner to the Internet

17:25 Bruce Flyer: i think you are about to set the record for keystrokes for a class in SL this evening Aphilo

17:26 You: and usenet was a global distributive discussion network.

17:26 You: And this fusion ulitmately became the Intenret.

17:26 You: So, the Internet came from the top and bottom simultaneously.

17:26 You: In 1983

17:27 You: Tom Jennings designed a program to allow dial up connections - FIDO

17:27 You: He built single-handedly a global network called FidoNet

17:27 You: The "poor man's Internet" - access for the prcie of a local phone call.

17:28 Robyn Proto is Offline

17:28 Robyn Proto is Online

17:28 You: and in the 2000, there were 3 million users still on FidoNet, when there were about 400 million on the Internet.

17:28 You: This is another example of a grass roots contribution.

17:29 You: So the formation fo the Internet came from military/university on the one hand

17:29 You: and students interested in allowing studetns to communicate for free

17:29 You: And many of these early Internet technologies are still used:

17:29 Bruce Flyer: were there any obvious mistakes along the way -- mistakes in the eveotion of the Internet?

17:30 You: Mailing lists, Bulletin board postings, Chat rooms

17:30 Parriah Janus is Offline

17:30 Boston Hutchinson: Good question, Bruce

17:30 You: These developed from the personal computers connection to the world.

17:30 You: Yes, Bruce

17:31 Boston Hutchinson: But to identify a mistake, you'd have to know how it could have been done better.

17:31 Bruce Flyer: we have an idea that evolution is deterministic but i don't know

17:31 You: The process of developing TCP/IP is an itneresting example of how new forms of technology develop.

17:31 You: Jon Postel developed the RFC

17:31 You: the Request for Comment - where if there was a dispute or a mistake

17:31 Bruce Flyer: and there is no way of knowing where another road would have led

17:31 Glenn Obolensky: Where is Tim Berniers-Lee in the timeline?

17:32 You: someone asked for a RFC, and this process later became formal -

17:32 You: and this would lead to a protocol.

17:32 You: 89-90 - is when Tim Berners-Lee created http and html

17:32 Glenn Obolensky: Ahh,TY

17:32 Bruce Flyer: on anther path we might be in a holodeck now

17:33 You: hyper text transfer protocal (http) - which is the addressing link system

17:33 You: and hyper text markup language, which is the language which make web pages readable in a browser

17:33 You: These transformed the internet dramatically, again single-handedly.

17:34 Glenn Obolensky: Who invented MOSAIC- was that Bell Labs?

17:34 You: One of the points of this class is that the Internet occurred largely accidentally

17:34 Bruce Flyer: i liked Boston's suggestion that peer-to-peer Internet may be the next big thing

17:34 You: That it's been a serendipitous process

17:35 You: military, economic or other genius shaped it

17:35 You: no - one created it . . . so in a way it's hard to think of it in terms of mistakes . . .there's been no design.

17:36 Bruce Flyer: but the people who contributed did so intentionally and thoughtfully (?)

17:36 You: Indeed, what's generated it, in a way, is what's new about this Information Technology revolution -

17:37 Bruce Flyer: the design is among us and not in any of us entirely?

17:37 You: information generation and production are what's new about this paradigm . .

17:37 Bruce Flyer: coproduction?

17:37 You: It may well be, Bruce and Boston

17:38 Bruce Flyer: but who decides this road is better than that road?

17:38 You: Yes, but informed by a hacking ethos, where making good software and hardware was key, - not working out of any plan.

17:38 Boston Hutchinson: Peer-to-peer virtual worlds, e.g. with croquet, and virtual worlds may take over much of the Internet, to follow up on your earlier comment, Bruce

17:38 You: Well now there are some standards committees

17:39 You: But it's been a largely laissez faire process - it's remarkable.

17:39 You: Yes, Boston . . .

17:39 Andromeda Mesmer: I hope it goes that way.

17:39 Boston Hutchinson: cheaper is better, less energy consumption is better, so eliminationg server farms is good

17:39 Andromeda Mesmer: I mean peer-to-peer ...

17:40 You: the distributive nature of the Internet makes it hard for anyone or corporation to control the Internet.

17:40 You: So to summarize thus far

17:40 Boston Hutchinson: PCs are becoming powerful enough to run the server and the user.

17:40 Bruce Flyer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croquet_project

17:41 You: In the late 1960s and 70s, military reserach sponsored out of the computer departments of leading Universities gave rise to the ARPANET

17:41 You: ARPANET developed in the 1970s for both military (MILNET) and civilian projects

17:41 Bruce Flyer: are you actively working in that area of research/dev. Boston?

17:41 Boston Hutchinson: That's it, Bruce. Croquet looks like great technology.

17:41 You: Boston, that might make an interesting presentation - let's talk about that.

17:42 Boston Hutchinson: OK

17:42 Andromeda Mesmer: I am very interested.

17:42 You: And in the late 1970s, communication softwre - publicly developed software, where everyone benefits - was developed.

17:42 You: And in the 1990s, ARPANET closed

17:43 Bruce Flyer: how would a Croquet environment be different from where we "are" now?

17:43 You: USENET

17:43 Boston Hutchinson: Bruce, I'm a real-time, distributed systems engineer. But formerly in aerospace, now in finance. never in Internet development.

17:43 Ralph Radius: Sometimes I think that the most radical change comming down the road will be the integration of the internet to the physical world. As in Vernor Vinge's Ranibows End. 3d goggle are used to overlay the physical world with internet data.

17:43 You: was the precursor to information and knowledge sharing on the Intenret.

17:44 You: (Ralph - those are fascinating developments, and SL may be a significant precursor of that, as well).

17:44 Ralph Radius: Yes.

17:45 You: With USENET, there were two signficant developments - 1 USENET could communicate with ARPANET in the mid 1980s

17:45 Ralph Radius: Sometimes I feel like I'm living in Vinge's book when I'm in SL. :)

17:45 Andromeda Mesmer: Or a holodeck

17:46 You: and 2 USENET could go global from the beginning but ARPANET couldn't

17:46 Ralph Radius: Yes

17:46 You: :)

17:46 Parriah Janus is Online

17:46 gfrazie Trenton is Online

17:46 You: So the global connection of the Internet came via USENET

17:46 You: Institutional development - 1990-1995

17:46 You: The US Government gradually moved to privatization via the NSF

17:47 You: And in 1995, the Internet was privatized

17:47 You: And so software started to come from teh private sector.

17:47 You: Up to this point, so much software for the Internet came in the ways desribed above - business played a very small role!

17:48 You: Anyone could set up nodes and use the backbone of the Internet - e.g. Universities, privated companies, anyone with a serv er

17:48 You: It was avery open system!

17:49 Champler Snook is Offline

17:49 You: But even with USENET, it required some technicl sophistication.

17:49 You: There wasn't any friendly user technology.

17:49 You: And here is where something socially important happened.

17:49 You: In 1991, editor browser programs to access and combine information were developed.

17:49 Andromeda Mesmer: Also no spam, I'd like to add -- when thngs became easy to use, spam started appearing.

17:50 You: How did this happen?

17:50 You: It was unplanned! - once again

17:50 You: A British programmer, Tim Berners-Lee with Roger Cailliau

17:50 You: - both were staff programmers working in Genevea at CERN - in high energy physics

17:51 You: Both had full time jobs.

17:51 You: Berners-Lee was in love with his job.

17:51 You: His immediate boss said "You are working on the Internet - drop this American TEchnology."

17:51 You: :)

17:51 You: And on his spare time, and without his boss knowing, he created the World Wide Web

17:52 You: The Internet was really pretty international in its origins.

17:52 You: Berners-Lee wrote programs for HTML, HTTP, URL

17:52 You: and finished them in 1990.

17:53 Bruce Flyer: we share Internet protocols but can agree on what an electric socket should look like

17:53 You: URL - Uniform Resource Locator - is a web address - a system of about 12 digits, separated by 3 periods, which correspond to a name

17:53 Bruce Flyer: can't

17:54 You: for example, http://democracynow.org corresponds to a 12 digit number.

17:54 You: :) , yes, Bruce

17:54 You: And http and html, I've described above.

17:55 You: By August 1991, Berners-Lee at CERN posted online in his BBS all this software, and instructions on how to get it for free!

17:55 You: The intermediate step between Berners-Lee and the public were studnets.

17:56 You: Mosaic was made in the early 1990s made by Marc Andreesson.

17:56 You: He was at the Univ. of Illinous, at the National Computer Center, and said what Berners-Lee made was cool

17:56 You: and it would be even cooler with graphics

17:56 You: So he made MOSAIc

17:57 You: with Eric Bina

17:57 You: with user friendliness in mind - thus making the world wide web accessible to a much larger audience.

17:58 You: And in 1993, they released Mosaic online - for free- following tradition.

17:59 You: A real entrepreneur - Jim Clark - saw a financial oportunity. Clark ahd started Silicon Graphics and was bored.

17:59 Bruce Flyer: so the person who invents a broswer invents the markup it reads and once it has started others build on what the first has done. I am trying to think is there is a "chicken or the egg" issue here.

17:59 You: He hired Andreeson and Bina, to commercialize MOSAIC - the product was under University license.

17:59 You: And they creted Netscape

17:59 You: And shipped the 1st browser in Dec. 1994.

17:59 Glenn Obolensky: eggs hatched dinosaurs long before any chicken evolved

18:00 You: This is a kind of Internet evolutionary history, where these events may seem like dinosaurs

18:01 You: given the rapid pace of change of the Internet . . .

18:01 You: So, let's stop there for the evening

18:01 Robyn Proto is Offline

18:02 You: and take up again next week the development of the Internet from the mid-1990s, when it became popular.

18:02 Geda Hax: all these , amazing guys .....but no woman , andromeda we must do something about it

18:03 Andromeda Mesmer: Heh heh.

18:03 You: Again serendipity continues to play a significant role, as does the tradition of making software available for free, but with competition playing more of a role, as well.

18:03 Bruce Flyer: did Grace Hopper make a contribution to the Internet?

18:03 Andromeda Mesmer: There was a woman admiral who created COBOL

18:03 Andromeda Mesmer: The same.

18:03 You: (although the idea for the internet did emerge in the context of the cold war, and us -soviet competition).

18:04 Geda Hax: hmmm , feeling better now .

18:04 You: Some women did play a significant role, in Apple, for example

18:04 Geda Hax: jk

18:04 You: Yes, A

18:04 Boston Hutchinson: Also in software for the Apollo program

18:04 You: Also, Boston .. .

18:04 Bruce Flyer: i hope in the future women and men will both continue to make great contributions to the Internet and beyond

18:05 You: SL has some key women helping to shape the company . . .

18:05 Andromeda Mesmer: And the top business person inSL is a woman -- Anshe Chung. That is, not counting corporations, which although legal persons probabably have an "IT" gender.

18:05 You: and scan the virtual worlds conference contributor list to see others.

18:05 You: he's a German businessman, actually.

18:05 Geda Hax: yep , I meant in the creation of internet

18:05 Andromeda Mesmer: She --Aphilo --

18:06 Bruce Flyer: this was an outstanding class. let's give Aphilo a hand.

18:06 Andromeda Mesmer: German-Chinese --

18:06 Andromeda Mesmer: ???

18:06 You: I saw him give a presentation - does he have chinese background, as well?

18:06 You: at SLCC 2007 in Chicago

18:06 Geda Hax: Thanks a lot Aphilo , it was great

18:06 Andromeda Mesmer: Wait a minute -- all the descriptions have been that she is a woman, pictures of a woman, with a German husband.

18:07 Boston Hutchinson: I'll have to learn how to do that, Bruce. I'm still a baby in SL

18:07 You: Anshe Chung is one of the most successful entrepreneurs in SL

18:07 Bruce Flyer: Gestures and then Clap

18:07 Bruce Flyer: bottom right on screen

18:07 You: You're welcome Geda . . . nice to chat with you.

18:07 Andromeda Mesmer applauding loudly in CHAT :)

18:07 Geda Hax: sorry guys for bringing the sexist thing ... haha , didnt mean it

18:07 Geda Hax: ;)

18:07 Boston Hutchinson: Oh. Thanks

18:08 Geda Hax: nice to chat with you all too

18:08 Bruce Flyer: bye all

18:08 Geda Hax: hope to see you all soon again

18:08 Boston Hutchinson: You too, Geda

18:08 You: I think we could find a fair number of women in the development of the internet, - there's a lot of material to cover, and typing slows things down.

18:08 Geda Hax: bye for now

18:08 Bruce Flyer is Offline

18:08 Geda Hax: I bet

18:08 Glenn Obolensky: TY and have fun in RL

18:08 You: Bye, and thank you all for coming!

18:08 You: See you next week.

18:08 Geda Hax: see you

18:08 Boston Hutchinson: Bye

18:09 Ralph Radius: Bye Geda

18:09 Andromeda Mesmer: See you,Aphilo :)

18:09 You: I'll post this transcript at http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

18:09 You: Bye Geda

18:09 You: Bye, Andromeda

18:09 You: Thanks for inviting folks, A

18:09 Eon Berkman is Offline

18:09 Ralph Radius: Bye Andromeda.

18:09 Andromeda Mesmer: I will remind them next week too.

 

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