Society and Information Technology in Second Life

Wednesdays, January 9 - July 30, 2008, 4-6, SLT/PT, 7-9 pm ET

on Berkman island in Second Life - http://slurl.com/secondlife/Berkman/114/70/25

 Course homepage - http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

 

Instructor: Scott MacLeod (not on Harvard's faculty) = Aphilo Aarde (in Second Life)

http://scottmacleod.com/papers.htm

 

 

May 28 2008 Soc and Info Tech class transcript

 

 

[15:59]  Boston Hutchinson is Online

[16:00]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Aphilo

[16:00]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Seeker

[16:00]  You: Hi Boston, Seeker

[16:00]  Seeker Schussel: hello Boston and Aphilo

[16:01]  You: Welcome to Society and Information Technology - http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

[16:02]  You: Let's wait a little longer for others to arrive . . .

[16:02]  You: Seeker, what are some of your specific interests in the Information Technology

[16:03]  Seeker Schussel: Sorry... other screen

[16:03]  You: Did either of you attend the Berkman Center for Internet and Society's 10th anniversary?

[16:04]  Seeker Schussel: no missed it...how was it?

[16:04]  Boston Hutchinson: I saw some of it live on-line, but there were problems with the video feed for the first hour or so

[16:05]  You: It was exciting and rich . . .

[16:05]  Seeker Schussel: What does the future hold?

[16:05]  You: I'm interested in how the vision of the Berkman Center for Internet and Society has developed after 10 years, and what informed it.

[16:06]  Alexicon Kurka is Offline

[16:06]  You: And Charlie Nesson's vision that helped shape the Berkman Center 10 years ago, with Jonathan Zittrain (The Future of the Internet and How to Stop It) and Myles Berkman,

[16:07]  You: has developed from this first vision of Charlie's

[16:07]  You: He sees the WWW as an

[16:08]  You: an integrated media realm of stories told and shared by digitally connected and enabled hearts and minds.

[16:08]  You: . . . and holds that WE are the future of the Internet

[16:09]  Perry Proudhon is Offline

[16:09]  You: IN this respect, Charlie thinks we have good stories to

[16:09]  You: to live and to tell.

[16:09]  You: And that these stories can and allow us to reflect a committment to openness . . .

[16:10]  JenzZa Misfit is Online

[16:10]  You: open education

[16:10]  Boston Hutchinson: I was intrigued by Zittrain's classification of security solutions on the Internet into a matrix or top down/bottom up and [what was it...] goverment / private? (not exactly...)

[16:10]  You: all of which will allow us to attempt to build bridge the Digital Divide

[16:11]  Sonja Strom is Online

[16:11]  You: and thus to build a commons of the Net

[16:11]  You: or more clearly, open code

[16:11]  You: open talk

[16:11]  You: From the social layer to the physical layer

[16:11]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Rain

[16:11]  You: . . . I think, Boston . . .

[16:11]  You: Hi Rain!

[16:11]  Jeande Laville is Offline

[16:11]  Rain Ninetails: :)

[16:11]  Sonja Strom is Offline

[16:11]  Rain Ninetails: hi!

[16:12]  You: with TCP / IP in the middle . . .

[16:12]  Diego Ibanez is Online

[16:12]  You: He has developed this to characterize ways in which the internet has both been generative

[16:13]  You: and can become sterile

[16:13]  You: and, also as a way to begin to frame how it may remain open

[16:13]  You: And this emerges in relation to Charlie Nesson's focus on openness

[16:14]  You: which informs the Bekrman Center signficantly

[16:14]  Joseph Tisch is Online

[16:14]  You: And many of the workshops focused on these questions

[16:14]  You: The Berkman Center in particular has focused on Network Neturality

[16:15]  You: and in one presentation, Yochai Benkler and Terry Fisher of Harvard Law School

[16:15]  You: and Tim Wu, of Columbia Law School

[16:15]  You: presented analyses to shape a reading of where the internet's openness

[16:16]  You: is at risk

[16:16]  You: They observe that a duopoly

[16:16]  You: which signficantly is shaping internet access today, potentially

[16:16]  You: limits choice in many ways,

[16:17]  You: although this duopoly affects broad numbers of Americans, but not all

[16:17]  You: Hello Still!

[16:17]  Still Waters: hi

[16:17]  You: They also laid out typologies for

[16:18]  You: Terry Fisher, for example

[16:18]  You: created a table which

[16:18]  You: showed on one axis

[16:18]  You: the variables of letting the market decide

[16:19]  You: and efficient discrimination as two criteria

[16:19]  You: for understanding

[16:19]  You: three areas of concern

[16:20]  You: Content Neutrality

[16:20]  You: application neutrality

[16:20]  Aidan Aquacade is Offline

[16:20]  You: sender neutrality

[16:20]  You: in terms of what exists

[16:20]  You: and how the RULE of REASON

[16:20]  You: might inform a reading of

[16:21]  You: a series of questions, which include

[16:21]  You: (I wish I had a whiteboard)

[16:22]  Still Waters: this is your whiteboard

[16:22]  You: namely

[16:22]  You: Leveraging local monopolies

[16:22]  You: Innovation on the Internet

[16:22]  You: Solidify position of "majors"

[16:22]  You: Cultures of Amateurism

[16:23]  You: and Paternalism

[16:23]  You: In addition

[16:23]  You: he examined

[16:23]  You: other criteria

[16:23]  You: in terms of strengths of argument

[16:24]  You: these include layer toll free-ness

[16:24]  You: layer separation

[16:24]  You: and truth in advertising

[16:24]  You: It's much more informative to display this in table form

[16:24]  You: but he used these criteria and categories

[16:25]  You: to lay out an approach to understanding issues of network neutrality

[16:25]  Andromeda Mesmer is Offline

[16:25]  ThePrincess Parisi is Online

[16:25]  You: And RULE OF REASON in his schema

[16:26]  You: was most critical

[16:26]  Diego Ibanez is Offline

[16:26]  You: in shaping an understanding of

[16:26]  You: APPLICATION NEUTRALITY and

[16:26]  You: SENDER NEUTRALITY

[16:27]  You: This schema becomes useful in looking at key developing aspects of network neutrality

[16:27]  Perry Proudhon is Online

[16:27]  Andromeda Mesmer is Online

[16:27]  You: but favors openness, in its potential to provide a way to conceive of the issue as a typology

[16:28]  You: Tim Wu, in the same presentation,

[16:28]  You: providing a diagram of where network neutrality stands now, in terms of the major players

[16:29]  You: In particular

[16:29]  You: Tim Wu was asking questions about payments

[16:30]  You decline Cecilia's at Muse Isle (59, 162, 28) from A group member named JenzZa Misfit.

[16:30]  You: 2 what would make reasonable questions concernign network neutrality

[16:30]  You: both in terms of a networks, and B management

[16:31]  You: 3 questions of how it would be administered

[16:31]  You: and 4 the role that Hollywood plays in terms of shaping the future of the Internet

[16:32]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Sara

[16:32]  sara Gartenberg: hi boston, aphilo and rain

[16:32]  You: And Yochai was pushing back against some givens of companies approaches to network neutrality

[16:32]  You: Hi Sara!

[16:33]  Boston Hutchinson: If they could just figure out how to charge the spammers and be neutral for the rest.....

[16:33]  You: In particular, and in general, whereas companies tend to frame questions of Network Neutrality in terms of scarcity

[16:34]  You: Companies can control the Internet by maintaining there's scarcity

[16:34]  You: Yochai, who wrote "The Wealth of Networks: How Social Production Transform Markets and Freedom "

[16:34]  You: starts with the assumption that there is abundance

[16:34]  You: in Internet resources

[16:35]  You: and that, for example, the radio spectrum, which will influence access to wi fi and wi max, two key

[16:35]  You: forms of wireless access, can be divided into multiple kinds of usage

[16:36]  You: Yes, Boston

[16:36]  You: that the issue is really one of political and policy control, rather than technogogical limitation . . .

[16:37]  You: the challenges of what amounts to an infinite number of URLs, 1st amendment rights

[16:37]  You: and open access/ network neutrality, makes issues of spam challenging

[16:38]  Boston Hutchinson: Alot of spam involves fraud. One example is the use of other people's return addresses.

[16:38]  You: Yes, these are problematic . . . and make the use of the Internet less welcoming for many

[16:39]  In Kenzo is Offline

[16:39]  You: In another session, to give you a few more examples, of what transpired at the Berkman Center for Internet and Society's 10th Annniversary

[16:40]  You: which was moderated by Gene Koo and Charles Nesson

[16:40]  You: we examined questions of education and learning in digital environments . . .

[16:41]  You: laying out a rich array of questions . . .

[16:41]  You: What was fascinating about this was the conversation aspect, where all of the participants made the class happen

[16:41]  You: - a very Socratic approach . . .

[16:42]  You: So, for example, in considering a model of education vis a vis digital environments

[16:42]  Daisyblue Hefferman is Offline

[16:42]  You: Gene favors a slightly more teacher-centric model of teaching and learning compared to Charlie Nesson, who

[16:43]  You: re-visits in so many ways the value of students initiating learning

[16:44]  You: These topics emerged in this session as a consequence of asking the participants to contribute

[16:44]  You: - Environmental sustainability Business Model Sustainable Expanded Mission of University Intl – other sectors Information vs. Education Skills – habits of mind Obsolescence of university Connecting learners

[16:44]  You: Ed tech vs tech writ large Gap = opportunity > convergence context – developing world quality control – speed vs peer review platform: virtual worlds infusing mentorship coaching A model that narrows (not>) gap social mobility

[16:44]  You: Actual $freedom Learning from (design by ) youth ~ Values ~ Generational disconnect Institution reform / teacher training ~ Evaluation ~ social learning

[16:45]  You: Information > Learning Learning > systems around Learning

[16:45]  You: Each of these issues played a significant role in shaping the conversation that ensued,

[16:45]  You: and Gene synthesized many of the questions and insights in

[16:46]  You: ways that focused the conversation toward an open education approach vis-a-vis the Internet

[16:46]  You: In the second half of the class this evening, I'd like to explicitly examine how we might

[16:47]  You: begin a conversation here about a possible global University

[16:48]  You: but before we come to this

[16:48]  You: let me share with you a few links that give you access to parts of this conference in rich ways

[16:48]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Andromeda

[16:48]  You: Hi Andromeda! Affrontimariana!

[16:48]  Andromeda Mesmer: Hi everybody :)

[16:49]  sara Gartenberg: hi andromeda :)

[16:49]  affrontimariana Arado: hi aphilo say me affro :)

[16:49]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Affrontimariana

[16:49]  sara Gartenberg: hi affro :)

[16:49]  ThePrincess Parisi is Offline

[16:49]  You: One fascinating session was moderated by John Palfrey, who is just stepping down from

[16:49]  affrontimariana Arado: sory im late

[16:50]  You: the executive director of the Berkman Center after 6 years, to become the head of the Harvard Law Library, among many responsibilities

[16:50]  You: This question and answer period opened an array of issues for the next 10 years, that will help focus the discussion in multiple ways

[16:50]  You: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/interactive/events/conferences/2008/05/berkmanat10

[16:51]  affrontimariana Arado: ok

[16:51]  You: That's the url for the actual session that John Palfrey moderated, with many key participants in the Berkman Center asking interesting

[16:51]  Diego Ibanez is Online

[16:51]  You: questions

[16:52]  You: And this interactive web url - at Harvard's Berkman Center, both contains the link

[16:53]  affrontimariana Arado: sorry what are you talking about?

[16:53]  You: to John's moderated talk, but a rich selection of other videos

[16:53]  You: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/interactive

[16:54]  You: And this question tool

[16:54]  You: As a complement to the final question period mdoerated by John Palfrey

[16:54]  You: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/questions/berkmanat10

[16:54]  You: the Question Tool was used to include other observations and comments

[16:54]  You: on the screen behind both John Palfrey and Terry Fisher, who gave the final summary

[16:55]  You: contains some key questions about the future of the Internet vis-a-vis a global University

[16:55]  You: (sorry - there's some lag)

[16:55]  Andromeda Mesmer: np

[16:56]  You: including the following suggestions

[16:56]  You: in response to Buffy's question "What do we do next?

[16:56]  You: What I'm curious about is

[16:56]  You: Develop an online, free, degree-granting, global university, with Harvard as a key player, at the undergraduate and graduate levels?

[16:56]  Sonja Strom is Online

[16:56]  You: why not develop an online, free, degree-granting, global university, with Harvard as a key player, at the undergraduate and graduate levels?

[16:57]  You: and start with 4 undergraduate for-credit courses in the fall of 2008 or the spring of 2009, listed in the Harvard catalog, as well as a course at Harvard Law School.

[16:57]  Andromeda Mesmer: That would be wonderful.

[16:57]  You: : then evelop these into degree programs. Develop dedicated funding and an endowment for this, invested in socially conscious funds.

[16:57]  You: and continue this conversation in real time through this emergent, open University and information technologies about these technologies.

[16:58]  affrontimariana Arado: there in the url is a video of andrew maclawghlin, i read a lot of book , is very very good

[16:58]  Gentle Heron is Offline

[16:58]  You: and to do so, let individuals and groups build virtual worlds in Open Sim and Second Life, that then connect as parts of this developing University, to continue this conversation.

[16:58]  Boston Hutchinson: Has the administration at Harvard shown any interest in this yet?

[16:59]  You: Yes, Affrontimariana -

[16:59]  You: I agree, Andromeda

[16:59]  Arawn Spitteler is Online

[16:59]  You: there is also this "Builidng a Globa\

[16:59]  You decline ::CONTACT:: 3.1  on ::SATURN:: from A group member named Sonja Strom.

[17:00]  You: "Building a Global University" link here -

[17:00]  You: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/interactive/events/luncheon/2008/04/mitrano

[17:00]  You: but it doesn't touch specifically on the questions above

[17:00]  Andromeda Mesmer: First SL has to work a whole lot better. I have talked to people who have been around longer, who say SL is WORSE now than it was 2 years ago -- less stable.

[17:01]  You: and that although the Berkman Center

[17:01]  Andromeda Mesmer: So possibly operating not through SL, but something else, would suit Harvard and the students better.

[17:01]  You: Boston, one managing director at Harvard observed that some of the schools at Harvard are conservative

[17:01]  affrontimariana Arado: how many people have sl? and people who study by sl ?

[17:01]  You: just obtained full Harvard University Center status, they can't grant degrees

[17:02]  You: but this managing director suggested jsut starting it . . .

[17:02]  Boston Hutchinson: I guess it would be helpful to develop more tools and methods for running courses and teaching.

[17:02]  DJWeyayman Howlett is Online

[17:02]  Abigail Tinkel is Online

[17:02]  You: After the break which we'll have soon, let's explore further responses to the above questions, as well as your thoughts

[17:03]  Boston Hutchinson: You would need a way to verify the identity of students, no? What does it mean to grant a degree to an avatar?

[17:03]  You: about what would make an ideal global University, with Harvard as key player, but especially from a bottom up "Request for Comments Wiki" persepctive

[17:03]  Diego Ibanez is Offline

[17:03]  You: What would be the best structure for this . . .

[17:03]  Andromeda Mesmer: I was just thinking about that -- does the avatar get the degree, or what?

[17:04]  You: Yes, Boston - interesting observations and thoughts

[17:04]  Andromeda Mesmer: MIT has its courses online for , but does not grant degrees.

[17:04]  You: Let's come back to them at about 15 minutes past the hour . . .

[17:04]  Boston Hutchinson: The concept of cheating would have to be revised, since all the students would have access to Google during exams!

[17:04]  Andromeda Mesmer: *free

[17:04]  You: True - 1800 of them now, some which include course long videos

[17:05]  You: Yes, Andromeda - another fascinating expression of Non-market information production

[17:05]  You: so see you about 15 mintues past

[17:05]  You: I'll post the transcript thus far to - http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

[17:05]  You: see you shortly . . . .

[17:06]  Andromeda Mesmer: I'm relogging .

[17:06]  Andromeda Mesmer is Offline

[17:07]  sara Gartenberg: i can hear you, affron

[17:07]  sara Gartenberg: and you?

[17:07]  sara Gartenberg: i'm from japan

[17:07]  sara Gartenberg: yes, not that much though

[17:08]  sara Gartenberg: do you see many argentina in SL?

[17:09]  sara Gartenberg: i was actually late too, but you could find the first part of conversation

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[17:10]  Andromeda Mesmer is Online

[17:10]  Boston Hutchinson: Aphilo was talking about a conference that took place at Harvard a week or two ago.

[17:11]  Boston Hutchinson: I think some of the links he gave us were to sessions from that conference.

[17:11]  sara Gartenberg: we're talking about information technology, the future of internet, focusing on changing educational system

[17:12]  sara Gartenberg: it's my understanding so far ... and the previous lectures, aphilo was talking about digital devide, and so on

[17:13]  Curious George is Online

[17:13]  Luciftias Neurocam is Online

[17:13]  sara Gartenberg: i don't think it's used for educational purpose in japan ...

[17:14]  sara Gartenberg: as a reserch projects, there are some, but not for learning specifically, i guess

[17:14]  Boston Hutchinson: There are a lot of universities from the U.S. in SL, but I don't know how much they actually use it for teaching.

[17:14]  sara Gartenberg: oh, that's great - i'm a student at university

[17:14]  Curious George is Offline

[17:15]  Jon Seattle is Offline

[17:15]  Boston Hutchinson: OpenSim?

[17:15]  affrontimariana Arado: sloodle=moodle+sl

[17:15]  affrontimariana Arado: it is so use in education

[17:15]  Andromeda Mesmer: There is a junior college in Canada -- one that I know of, which actually does use SL for teaching. The students said it was very convenient, if they were sick or if a snowstorm made travel difficult.

[17:16]  You: Hi again

[17:16]  sara Gartenberg: ah, yes - that's used in japan

[17:16]  You: I posted the transcript here - http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com/May-28-2008-Soc-and-Info-Tech-class-transcript

[17:16]  Andromeda Mesmer: Hi Aphilo.

[17:17]  Boston Hutchinson: Looks interesting

[17:17]  Luciftias Neurocam is Offline

[17:17]  Boston Hutchinson: I see: http://WWW.SLOODLE.ORG/

[17:17]  Gentle Heron is Online

[17:17]  You: Harvard's Berkman Center for Internet and Society 10th anniversary conference occurred on May 15 and 16, th and f in Cambridge . . .

[17:18]  You: At what university are you studying Sara?

[17:18]  You: Please repeat Affrontimariana

[17:18]  sara Gartenberg: the name? it's Kobe university

[17:18]  affrontimariana Arado: do you use sloodle to teach?

[17:19]  You: In response to your observation about plagiarism, Boston,

[17:20]  JenzZa Misfit is Offline

[17:20]  You: I think paper topics that involved arguments and research vis-a-vis specific course content and original research could lessen cheating

[17:21]  You: So, let's return to some of your thoughts about a global, degree-granting, open, free University, with Harvard as a key player . . .

[17:21]  DJWeyayman Howlett is Offline

[17:21]  Popple Gothly: hi

[17:21]  You: Hi Popple!

[17:21]  Popple Gothly: mind if i sit in? im a seneca student from canada lol

[17:22]  You: Please - at large participation is welcome

[17:22]  You: At the end of Harvard's Berkman Center's conference someone asked "Where do we go from here?"

[17:22]  Andromeda Mesmer: Hi Popple -- I'm from Toronto, and know where one Seneca campus is.

[17:22]  affrontimariana Arado: interesting

[17:22]  You: And above I posed the questions of

[17:22]  You: Develop an online, free, degree-granting, global university, with Harvard as a key player, at the undergraduate and graduate levels?

[17:23]  You: and start with 4 undergraduate for-credit courses in the fall of 2008 or the spring of 2009, listed in the Harvard catalog, as well as a course at Harvard Law School.

[17:23]  You: then develop these into degree programs. Develop dedicated funding and an endowment for this, invested in socially conscious funds.

[17:23]  You: and continue this conversation in real time through this emergent, open University and information technologies about these technologies.

[17:23]  You: and to do so, let individuals and groups build virtual worlds in Open Sim and Second Life, which then connect as parts of this developing University, to continue this conversation.

[17:24]  You: Please comment as I lay out a view of how this might work.

[17:24]  You: I'm particularly interested in your thoughts about structuring this, vis-a-vis ways in which the Internet has arisen

[17:24]  Boston Hutchinson: http://slisweb.sjsu.edu/sl/index.php/How_do_I_Get_Started_with_Sloodle

[17:25]  You: say, TCP/IP transmission control protocol / internet protocol - written from 1973-78

[17:25]  Boston Hutchinson: Affro, it appears that sloodle has emthods for avatar authentication and maybe a lot of other tools for teaching in SL.

[17:25]  affrontimariana Arado: yes , i was in a course of sloodle before coming here...

[17:25]  Daisyblue Hefferman is Online

[17:25]  Popple Gothly: its a very interesting concept but why would havard agree to do this?

[17:25]  You: with a "Request for Comment" process

[17:25]  You: as well as the wiki process, for organizing and bringing together multiple perspectives.

[17:26]  You: Could we develop a wikipedia university approach, for example, with Harvard as a key player, and degree granter

[17:26]  affrontimariana Arado: utopic i think

[17:26]  You: Here are a few further thoughts, before I respond ot yours and we start a discussion

[17:27]  You: I think that to extend flexibly Harvard's knowledge-generating networks through creating a virtual university~universe, built by individuals and groups, is a fascinating opportunity and challenge.

[17:27]  You: Charlie is visionary, Affront, and the Berkman Center's success could seem improbable, as might wikipedia

[17:27]  Joseph Tisch is Offline

[17:27]  You: Such a project would generate knowledge, jobs, and 'worlds' richly, as well as further focus the Berkman Center's mission.

[17:28]  You: Here are some further thoughts and speculations about how we might develop and illuminate a far-reaching, networking, degree-granting, virtual-world university:

[17:28]  You: Include new forms of knowledge production, research, and academic courses, in science, medicine, music, law, all academic disciplines, as well as empathically deliver course content to speakers of all 3000 - 8000 languages with OLPC (one laptop per child), to make life knowledge-rich, better, and more comfortable where-ever people are, in ways end-users can then develop.

[17:28]  You: And let end-users shape this process of developing an open, global University, through a kind of Request for Comment on Wikis, for example.

[17:28]  DJWeyayman Howlett is Online

[17:28]  You: Through this, we all might shape a far-reaching, global university together.

[17:29]  Claryssa Schmidt is Online

[17:29]  You: Include comprehensive and varied course material for children and teenagers.

[17:29]  You: In addition, develop avatars that pass the Turing Test conversation-wise, an interactive Richard Rorty hologram, for example, through which people might create dialog-generated knowledge and content, which then leads to very rich flow experiences for all.

[17:29]  You: (This last part is most science fiction like)

[17:29]  You: IN these respects, I'd like to think through and facilitate the networking of Second life, Croquet, Open Sim, Google Earth, and MIT’s Open Course Ware, among other relevant, virtual educational software, toward the goal of an open, degree-granting, virtual University.

[17:30]  You: I think Charlie Nesson, Harvard and the Berkman Center have the skills, resources, and the vision to create this global University, a fascinating and far-reaching project.

[17:30]  You: Hi Claryssa!

[17:31]  DJWeyayman Howlett is Offline

[17:31]  Claryssa Schmidt: hi Aphilo

[17:31]  Andromeda Mesmer: If I recall correctly, the famous India Institute of Technology has also put its courses online --

[17:31]  You: And the Berkman Center has made real a bottom up approach - how to facilitate this as a group project, made by all of us . . .

[17:32]  Popple Gothly: although not virtual

[17:32]  You: So what innovative ways might we structure such an endeavor?

[17:32]  Popple Gothly: i have several online courses available to me

[17:32]  You: And how would you envision a global university?

[17:32]  You: using the standards of Harvard and MIT, in part, to inform such a project,

[17:33]  Popple Gothly: well wouldnt it look something like this only on a more grand scale?

[17:33]  You: but making content and interaction for groups in the developing world, for example, India, Africa, etc . . . key and central . . .

[17:33]  Veeyawn Spoonhammer is Online

[17:34]  You: Yes, Andromeda, MIT Open Course Ware, the University of California, and many other universities have made their course material avaialbe . . .

[17:34]  DJWeyayman Howlett is Online

[17:34]  Popple Gothly: well i would think something along the lines of a community center like the ones we have here, where less fortunate people can access the internet

[17:35]  Boston Hutchinson: More tools for teaching, virtual lab work, testing, media would be useful.

[17:35]  You: I think it would, Popple, and perhaps include also interactive teaching . . .

[17:35]  You: How to engage and invite faculty to participate?

[17:36]  You: At first some faculty at MIT were loathe to publish their syllabi, and later videos of their courses, and last year at Harvard's Berkman Center's conf "University: Knowledge Beyond Authority", only 1550

[17:37]  Boston Hutchinson: I wonder if multiple professors could collaborate though a shared classroom, allowing groups of students from real and virtual schools to access a common course.

[17:37]  You: courses had been published

[17:37]  DJWeyayman Howlett is Offline

[17:37]  You: an indication at the time that it wasn't mandatory, and faculty could choose. Now MIT faculty have published 1800

[17:38]  You: of their courses . . .

[17:38]  You: Yes, Boston, now MIT has many courses with semester long video

[17:39]  Boston Hutchinson: If you take a popular lecture course (e.g. the physics lectures at MIT) and built a shared classroom in which to study, with assistance from multiple professors and teaching assistants...

[17:39]  You: That's a fascinating idea, Boston, and many could do so potentially anonymously.

[17:39]  You: IN this course, Jonathan Zittrain has offered to come talk

[17:40]  You: But how can people envision a structure for this, wikipedia and TCP/IP like -

[17:40]  Boston Hutchinson: That would be interesting.

[17:41]  Popple Gothly: well you would need a big server haha

[17:41]  You: Not corporate, necessarily, and not a collective, necessarily, and a development of the University model, perhaps, but both bottom up, and with the highest standards . . .

[17:41]  You: Yes, Popple

[17:41]  You: What's interesting about the Croquet virtual world, mentioned above

[17:41]  Boston Hutchinson: I imagine a common classroom, surrounded by doors (or teleports) to the offices and classrooms of other participating professors

[17:41]  You: and developed by some at MIT

[17:42]  You: is that it's hosted on locally on our own machines

[17:42]  You: and to converge Second LIfe with Google Earth with Open Sim (where we can make virtual worlds fro free) and Croquet

[17:42]  SamBivalent Spork is Offline

[17:42]  Andromeda Mesmer: These study classrooms could be divided up, and put into different time zones too. Maybe even use helpsrs from elsewhere, not MIT ...

[17:42]  You: with individuals and groups making this, that would all eventually converge

[17:43]  You: is the possibility to create a far-reaching university - universe

[17:43]  Boston Hutchinson: I agree, Andromeda.

[17:43]  You: Yes, Boston, that would hlep

[17:43]  You: Yes, and hosted on our own machines.

[17:43]  Boston Hutchinson: And links to the related resources, wikis, lectures, readings would be in the classrooms

[17:44]  You: the reason MIT makes this Open Course Ware material available

[17:44]  Draxtor Despres is Online

[17:44]  jek Criss is Online

[17:44]  You: probably has to do with a number of aspects, and seems to be an expression of onmarket Information Technology (Benkler)

[17:45]  You: although the director of MIT's Open Course Ware project said in 2007 at the Berkman Conference "Unviersity: Knowledge Beyond Authority"

[17:45]  Barbie Starr is Offline

[17:45]  You: that MIT had spent around 20 million at the time, I think

[17:46]  You: But in the IT revolution, hacking and sharing information, - not monetized - has often seemed nonsensible at times

[17:46]  You: and yet institutions and hackers, for example, gain prestige

[17:46]  You: and it often comes back to them

[17:46]  You: With respect to MIT

[17:47]  You: I think the amount of money they may have spent may be a drop in the bucket of their budget

[17:47]  Boston Hutchinson: I don't think MIT is going to lose any paying students to the free on-line version. They will always have plenty of applicants!

[17:47]  You: may serve as advertising, branding, as a way to set standards, and be the first

[17:47]  You: Exactly, Boston

[17:48]  You: and the OCW is also helpful for review for MIT students

[17:48]  DJWeyayman Howlett is Online

[17:48]  You: Those autodidacts (self learners) in the world also benefit richly tin this time of informationalism

[17:49]  Boston Hutchinson: I wonder if small colleges are using the open courseware in their own teaching.

[17:49]  You: So how would you provide a structure building on a kind of wikipedia approach and convergence of virtual worlds, that is inclusive

[17:49]  You: and yet sets the highest standards?

[17:50]  Joseph Tisch is Online

[17:50]  You: What structure and how would you shape a degree granting University, with Harvard as a key player, but which may take sometime before it grants degrees?

[17:50]  Boston Hutchinson: It seems like a kind of marketplace of open courseware will result in students (and colleges) choosing the most effective teaching methods.

[17:50]  You: And how would you create opportunities for faculty members and studnets to engage in new forms of knowledge production thanks to IT

[17:51]  Boston Hutchinson: I'm not sure this is good for the average professor, but it might be good for students.

[17:51]  Draxtor Despres is Offline

[17:51]  You: Yes, Boston . . . so an iTunes University approach, that then allows faculty also to find students to teach?

[17:52]  Popple Gothly: well wouldnt a virtual lecture structure sort of thing work best

[17:52]  You: Yes, yet it could also offer opportunities for the average professor in ways that heretofore hadn't existed . . .

[17:53]  Andromeda Mesmer: There are some people in SL who are willing to teach for free -- and Free university lectures have been around for a long time. There might be considerable status in the future for such professors and teachers.

[17:53]  You: Yes, Popple, but I've also found interactive content in a virtual world to be most rich learning-wise

[17:54]  Boston Hutchinson: If thousands of students view the same virtual lecture, many professors would have to teach from that material, which would probably appeal to some, but not to all.

[17:54]  Popple Gothly: some interactive content wouldnt be hard to add

[17:55]  Boston Hutchinson: It would produce conformity. So how would we also get diversity of views, ideas and subject matter when everybody sees the same lecture?

[17:55]  You: Yes, but with Harvard and MIT as key players, for example, I think it's important to compensate faculty members, through some sort of endowment, in socially conscious funds, perhaps, and perhaps monies from the state as well, but such that this global, degree-granting open free university, with the potential to reach 3000-8000 languages and their speakers

[17:55]  Popple Gothly: so one host to thousands of teachers?

[17:56]  You: is both very inclusive, bottom up, and engages in the most rigorous academic research, and in novel ways due to Information Technology

[17:56]  Popple Gothly: who can teach people of their own country?

[17:56]  Boston Hutchinson: Good question, Popple!

[17:56]  Popple Gothly: thanks

[17:56]  You: Yes, Boston, and yet perhaps a great number of professors would also post material in related areas.

[17:57]  You: Great question, Popple

[17:57]  Aidan Aquacade is Online

[17:57]  You: What do you think, Popple?

[17:57]  You: A variety of iTunes' approaches with multiple content approaches?

[17:58]  Michele Mrigesh is Offline

[17:58]  You: iTunes' University? or a Berkman Global University with courses organized aroudn wikis, for example, which are very useful group participation tools?

[17:58]  Boston Hutchinson: I feel like we risk doing to education what we did to music: go from a piano or guitar in every house to a radio where everybody listens to the same music.

[17:59]  You: what do you think?

[17:59]  You: Yes, Boston, and yet the distributed nature of the Internet - millions of nodes and urls - might mitigate against this, in part . . .

[17:59]  Persis Trilling is Offline

[18:00]  sara Gartenberg: i guess, in different region creates its own knowledge too, through the same material including the interactive learning style

[18:00]  sara Gartenberg: it affeests its culture too

[18:00]  Popple Gothly: well if there were different teachers in each country, giving different lectures, it would be less conformist and wouldnt be a legal issue for teaching certain things in other countrys

[18:01]  Boston Hutchinson: I think there is a real possibility that we will go to a franchise model of education.

[18:01]  You: Yes, Sara, regions in terms of geography, and in Second LIfe

[18:01]  sara Gartenberg: yes, both

[18:02]  You: and with a virtual university / universe, iwth individuals and groups making virtual worlds on their local machines - the garage band approach that has been so signficant to the shaping of the Internet - might complement that Boston, and Sara

[18:02]  Barbie Starr is Online

[18:02]  You: Yes, Popple -

[18:03]  You: in addition to millions of nodes and URLs - web addresses - there are also 10s of thousands of professors (each with their own "computer" as mind:)

[18:04]  You: We've come to the end of the time - thanks for an interesting discussion on a global University / Universe -

[18:04]  Andromeda Mesmer: exams could be a problem - probably best done entirely in RL, central locations somewhere.

[18:04]  Spider Mycron is Offline

[18:05]  You: We'll meet again next week and I'll post this transcript - although I have to leave soon, please continue this discussion now and later

[18:05]  You: True, Andromeda

[18:05]  Boston Hutchinson: ...and I thought I was going to have access to Google during the exam! :)

[18:05]  sara Gartenberg: i wonder what's the final purpose of the education then ... tested, and granted ...

[18:05]  You: :)

[18:05]  sara Gartenberg: :)

[18:06]  Claryssa Schmidt: thanks Aphilo

[18:06]  Popple Gothly: Thanks for the discussion Aphilo

[18:06]  You: the liberal arts' model - knowledge production through some kind of conversation? What do people think?

[18:06]  Andromeda Mesmer: I don't use calculus, but I like knowing it -- it's for my own pleasure. Same with astronomy ... I like learning.

[18:06]  Popple Gothly: and also if you have proof of it you can do certain jobs

[18:06]  Popple Gothly: that would be unsafe for the uneducated

[18:07]  Boston Hutchinson: I wonder whether credentials will get separated from education more than they now are.

[18:07]  sara Gartenberg: that's true, popple

[18:07]  Popple Gothly: its doubtfull

[18:08]  Boston Hutchinson: As a software engineer who never took a computer course, I'm use to it, but it's rare now.

[18:08]  Popple Gothly: yes

[18:08]  Andromeda Mesmer: Well there are credentials, but you often also need to get some experience on the job too.

[18:08]  Popple Gothly: which is why co op courses are so nice

[18:08]  You: You're welcome -and thanks for coming

[18:08]  You: http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com/May-28-2008-Soc-and-Info-Tech-class-transcript

[18:09]  Popple Gothly: bye!

[18:09]  jek Criss is Offline

[18:09]  You: is the URL

[18:09]  You: Bye and thanks!

[18:10]  Andromeda Mesmer: One programmer that I know, has complained to me that there is too much looking at people's credentials today. This is because the old middle managers, who had worked their way up rom being programmers, are no longer around. And Human Resources can only judge by credentials.

[18:10]  Popple Gothly: same time... same..... placeish thing? lol

[18:10]  Andromeda Mesmer: See you Aphilo

[18:10]  You: yes - http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

[18:10]  Andromeda Mesmer: 7 pm EDT :)

[18:11]  Popple Gothly: thanks guys

[18:11]  Popple Gothly: well later

[18:11]  sara Gartenberg: thanks popple

[18:11]  Boston Hutchinson: Yes, Andromeda. There really weren't any software courses when I started programming. I guess it's a characteristic of new fields that people start without credentials.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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