Society and Information Technology in Second Life

Wednesdays, January 9 - July 30, 2008, 4-6, SLT/PT, 7-9 pm ET

on Berkman island in Second Life - http://slurl.com/secondlife/Berkman/114/70/25

Course homepage - http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

 

Instructor: Scott MacLeod (not on Harvard's faculty) = Aphilo Aarde (in Second Life)

http://scottmacleod.com/papers.htm

 

 

Mar 26 2008 Soc and Info Tech class transcript

 

[15:55]  You: Hello Kibou!

[15:55]  Daisyblue Hefferman is Online

[15:55]  You: Hello Reed

[15:55]  Reed Markstein: Ho!

[15:56]  Kibou Yokosuka: Hello!

[15:56]  You: There's a class on "Society and Information Technology" that starts here in a few minutes.

[15:56]  You: http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

[15:56]  Reed Markstein: Yes, looking at the links from the event notice now. Thank you!

[15:57]  You: Great.

[15:57]  You decline Backintyme Bookstore from A group member named Raymond Frog.

[15:57]  Kibou Yokosuka: Are laypeople welcome to watch/listen to it?

[15:58]  Reed Markstein: These sit poses are a little funny. We look like the guy in the old Memorex commercial, being blasted at by his soundsystem.

[15:58]  You decline Backintyme Bookstore from A group member named Raymond Frog.

[15:58]  You decline vBusiness Central 4, Clever Zebra 4 (166, 179, 32) from A group member named Jenn Hienrichs.

[15:59]  You: Yes, you are welcome to participate

[15:59]  You: :)

[15:59]  Boston Hutchinson is Online

[16:00]  You: Hello Boston

[16:00]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Aphilo

[16:00]  You: Hi LorDNefesH

[16:00]  You: Hi Andromeda!

[16:01]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Andromeda

[16:01]  LorDNefesH Wolf: heloo

[16:01]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi all

[16:01]  Andromeda Mesmer: Hi folks

[16:01]  You: As we get started, I'm curious about your specific interests Reed, Kibou LorDNefesH in the Info Tech revolution . . .

[16:02]  You: General or specific.

[16:02]  You: ...if you'd care to share them briefly.

[16:03]  You: One of the interesting things about a class in Second Life is that we can create multiple lines of dialogue simultanously

[16:03]  Andromeda Mesmer: Fast answer there.

[16:03]  You: and this can lead to rich conversation.

[16:03]  You: While I will talk a fair amount about

[16:03]  You decline Talis Cybrary Island, Talis Cybrary Island (196, 141, 23) from A group member named Teofila Matova.

[16:03]  Brian Whiteberry is Offline

[16:03]  You: some alternative views of how spatiality changes vis-a-vis information technology

[16:04]  You: and about noopolitik

[16:04]  You: I encourage people to contribute

[16:04]  You: Rain was just here . . .

[16:04]  You: Hello Rain!

[16:04]  Reed Markstein: Interests are in community-driven databases. Both wikipedia, and Google-style mining of large amounts of loosely joined public info. Also in virtual worlds like SL augmenting/replacing a lot of RL activity. Both seem very disruptive, hard to get my head around where they'll take us.

[16:05]  You: Thanks

[16:05]  Rain Ninetails: hi! :)

[16:05]  You: Welcome!

[16:05]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Rain

[16:06]  You: communities have been a significant part of the Internet since even the late 1970s

[16:06]  01 Hifeng is Online

[16:06]  matrix05 Infinity is Offline

[16:06]  You: And, of course, the Pew Center for Internet and American Life continues to compile statistics about Internet usage, among others.

[16:07]  Geda Hax is Online

[16:07]  Enapa Pennell is Offline

[16:07]  You: So they are useful references.

[16:07]  You: I have posted transcripts from previous classes

[16:08]  You: and one of the unique aspects of the IT revolution vis-a-vis other industrial revolutions is that it allows us to associate

[16:08]  You: in groups of our choosing, even more so than in the ways that transportation and early telecommunication allowed us to do as the industrial revolutions unfolded

[16:10]  You: so, in one sense, I think this will continue, Reed, as virtual worlds develop, with new forms of interactivity, immersion, narrativity, integration of media elements, and hyperlink possibilities

[16:10]  You: But this evening I'd like to bring our examination of spatiality to a close, before moving to look at noopolitiks

[16:11]  You: What do you think about the way virtual worlds will change and develop?

[16:11]  You: For this evening,

[16:12]  You: How does technology intervene in actual transformation of spatial sturcture?

[16:12]  Miranda Tibbett is Online

[16:12]  Coene Soyuz is Online

[16:13]  You: In the past few weeks, the role that urbanization will play is most significant in the next few decades, and IT will accentuate this - is what we've looked at so far

[16:13]  You: But here are some alternative views

[16:13]  Andromeda Mesmer: Well, distance is irrelevant. Now it is a question of RL time zones. That divides people more than anything else, I'd say. Well, language skills too, but that is being overcome with better and better translating programs.

[16:13]  Miranda Tibbett is Offline

[16:13]  You: about how technogloy will change the way we live and habitate.

[16:14]  You: The possibility of telework - living in large metropolitcan areas, but working from home

[16:14]  You: has been explored in depth by the media.

[16:14]  Reed Markstein: In the US at least, there's a long-running transition from industrial to service economies, and IT is making more and more of those possible at distances. Does this slow urbanization, when people have more choice about where they work?

[16:14]  You: But this problem won't happen en masse.

[16:14]  You: Why?

[16:14]  matrix05 Infinity is Online

[16:14]  Reed Markstein: (Do we comment as you're talking, or wait for you to ask for input?)

[16:14]  You: It depends on understanding of telework

[16:15]  Perry Proudhon is Online

[16:15]  You: Yes, Reed, but many researchers who study cities see urbanization taking shape dramatically. Good question.

[16:16]  Spider Mycron is Offline

[16:16]  You: Because, in part, jobs and infrastructure are still very important, and significantly more accessible in urban areas.

[16:16]  You: (Please, if you wish).

[16:16]  You: So telework is work online from home without having to go to work.

[16:17]  You: In 1997 cnesus - recent data

[16:17]  You: Peope working from home did so on avg 20 hours of week or less.

[16:17]  Reed Markstein: From Chicago and San Diego, it sure seems undocumented immigrants make up the majority of the growth. One aspect of large US cities is that they tend to be safe havens for this. I wonder if the immigration trend is responsible for urbanization not reversing.

[16:17]  You: This would represent only 6.4% of the total labor force of which the median was 15 hours a week working at home but not online or on the Internet.

[16:18]  You: (I'll have to check).

[16:18]  Diego Ibanez is Online

[16:18]  Luna Bliss is Offline

[16:19]  You: In another study, work at home was estmiated at 7 days / month only

[16:19]  Reed Markstein: 1997 census data isn't really recent in internet terms. That's sitting just before the big spike in use and general public availability.

[16:19]  You: So, yes, work at home is occurring, but not neccesarily online

[16:20]  You: One important change is the development of call centers

[16:20]  You: These are office spaces with sophisticated telecommunications equimpment on the periphery of cities, and workers go to these centers and work from there.

[16:21]  You: True, but the most recent US census is still in process

[16:21]  You: and that will include a lot of data since 94-95 when the intnernet gained mass popularity.

[16:22]  You: So call cetners are not like people work from home, but at call centers, space is shared by different companies.

[16:22]  You: A different expression of telecommunication space > telecommunication factories.

[16:23]  You: After the crisis of 1994, there were semi-vacant buildings in LA

[16:23]  You: historic buildings rented by a number of teleocmmunication services.

[16:23]  You: These are different because they include telecommunication equimpment that small companies

[16:24]  You: then subcontract from major carriers.

[16:24]  You: This led to an explosion of business in downtown LA

[16:24]  You decline Book Island Beach discussion are, Book Island (199, 43, 23) from A group member named faeryraindancer Ninetails.

[16:24]  You: and evicted residences

[16:24]  You: Another major development

[16:25]  You: has been in mobile networking

[16:25]  You: working from wherever they are

[16:25]  You: This is not telecommuniting or teleworking but it is from everywhere

[16:25]  You: and has led to the "office on the run"

[16:25]  You: where people go into new spaces

[16:26]  You: So you don't have permanent office space for everyone -

[16:26]  You: depending on the job, people move around, and what takes shape is telemobility or hypermobility.

[16:26]  You: so the development of internet based work incrases traffic

[16:26]  You: And this isn't only for work

[16:27]  You: There's an explosion of telebanking and teleshopping

[16:27]  Sean18 McCarey is Online

[16:27]  You: The pattern of constant mobility where you can process information anytime or anywhere

[16:27]  You: leads to a new pattern of life

[16:27]  You: and an ubiquity of connection

[16:27]  You: and this is likely to continue to grow steadily

[16:28]  Sunnyk Noyes is Offline

[16:28]  You: So, although I avoid predictions, this is already here, especially in places like Japan, for example.

[16:28]  You: WAP - wide area protocol - make mobile internet access possible

[16:29]  SamBivalent Spork is Online

[16:29]  You: IN 2003 there were 400 million users in Japan and Europe

[16:29]  Brian Whiteberry is Online

[16:29]  You: But the U.S. chose multiple incompatible standards

[16:30]  You: The other major development between technology and space

[16:30]  You: is still in the making

[16:30]  You: and that is the development of sensors everywhere in our habitat

[16:30]  You: Gershenfeld's lecture in the Library of Congress Digital Future series, that I posted in a previous transcript explores this dramatically.

[16:31]  You: He's a MIT MEdia Lab professor, and exciting to listen to.

[16:32]  You: So these are some complementary alternative views of ways in which the technology and spatiality will change

[16:32]  Enapa Pennell is Online

[16:32]  You: Before we move on to noopolitik, which is Although realpolitik is commonly equated with hard power, and seemingly noopolitik with soft power, both are broader in their embodiment of a form of organization. Specifically, realpolitik is not limited to hard power and coercion, but embodies a hierarchical form of organization. Likewise, noopolitik is not limited to reliance on knowledge and soft power, but embodies a networked form of organization

[16:33]  You: . I suspect you have some ideas about how spatiality is changing due to technology

[16:33]  You: Hello Enapa! Hi 01 Hifeng!

[16:33]  Enapa Pennell: hello, Aphilo.

[16:33]  Enapa Pennell: All

[16:34]  You: So, State logic and international relations are influenced significantly

[16:34]  You: by the IT revolution and networking mentaility

[16:35]  You: One definition of war is the pursuit of politicas by other means.

[16:35]  You: And we're going to concentrate on two sets of issues

[16:35]  You: transforming war and peace

[16:36]  You: The new geopolitical environment emerging in today's world.

[16:36]  You: the geopolitcal environment.

[16:36]  You: ...concerning how information technology reenacts war.

[16:36]  You: Hello Alex!

[16:36]  Alex Lockett: hi...

[16:36]  You: I'll make a few points to start

[16:36]  Alex Lockett: ok

[16:37]  You: 1) There's a dramatic transformation under way in warfare in the last 30 years.

[16:37]  You: and these aren't in technologies of war fare, per se

[16:37]  You: At the end of the so-called Viet Nam war

[16:37]  Veeyawn Spoonhammer is Online

[16:38]  You: people were tired of war, and not ready to die for what a country says.

[16:38]  You: This was a very important psychological change

[16:38]  You: IN France, their own version of the Viet Nam war in Algeria met with the same change

[16:39]  You: Citizens wouldn't support warfare

[16:39]  You: There were 3 major changes in this strategy >

[16:40]  You: and they started with the defense department and were based on 3 processes

[16:40]  matrix05 Infinity is Offline

[16:40]  You: A) trying to influcne processes in other areas of the world by means of intelligence and counter-intelligence

[16:40]  You: called low intensity warfare

[16:41]  matrix05 Infinity is Online

[16:41]  You: B) Information based change of opinion

[16:41]  You: that led to the end of the draft in the 1980s and a professional army

[16:41]  You: an army led by professionals

[16:41]  You: and C) and most important

[16:42]  You: even with people being paid to go to war, the notions of Americans, etc., being killed in unknown places became deeply unpopular

[16:42]  You: Warmaking became increasinginly unpopular

[16:43]  You: except if a country sees the benefits and not th costs, or if the costs were very low

[16:43]  Cookie Kappler is Online

[16:43]  You: If this latter is the case, then why not?

[16:43]  You: > So, the purpose of the whole strategy that emerged with noopolitik

[16:43]  You: was to minimize the time and effort of war making so society would not feel the pinch.

[16:44]  You: So, either devastating damage i.e. a surgical strike to improse terms and negotiation became extermely important as part of this transformation.

[16:44]  You: Hisotrically, people used to engae in long, devastating wars.

[16:45]  You: The idea emerged to use technology and technological advances to make the enemy give up

[16:45]  You: I.E. INSTANT WAR

[16:45]  Luciftias Neurocam is Online

[16:45]  You: The first semi-instant war occurred in 1991 in the Gulf wars

[16:46]  You: And this went on for months - on and on

[16:46]  You: And it was based on an aerial assault

[16:46]  Boston Hutchinson: But the enemy generally doesn't give up

[16:46]  You: The Gulf war lasted 100 hours

[16:46]  Andromeda Mesmer: preparation went on for months -- the actual war was pretty brief.

[16:46]  You: and engaged overwhleming force concetnrated there.

[16:46]  Boston Hutchinson: Except in Bosnia, not since WWII?

[16:46]  You: due to technology

[16:47]  You: so these wars don't have to be full fledged wars

[16:47]  You: In this war, they did, Boston

[16:47]  Boston Hutchinson: Iraq?

[16:47]  You: impose enough damage on command and control centers, and a country fragments

[16:47]  Boston Hutchinson: they withdrew, but didn't stop resisting

[16:48]  You: The idea of the 'surgical strike' emerged, based on information technology

[16:49]  You: Let me come back to that, Boston, after laying out this way of thinking about war

[16:49]  Boston Hutchinson: OK

[16:49]  You: A surgical strike involves satellite positioning, and smart bombs

[16:49]  You: A little too much high technology ideology

[16:49]  matrix05 Infinity is Offline

[16:49]  You: but overall the key idea is superiority through satellite

[16:50]  You: Inflict devastating losses to the enemy

[16:50]  matrix05 Infinity is Online

[16:50]  You: so limited collateral damage

[16:51]  You: The Serbian war was also an attmpt to do the same, and ultimately prodcued some of these effects.

[16:51]  You: Because of these approaches, there's a separating of public opinion rom war strategy

[16:52]  You: And this occurred for the first time in the Cold War

[16:52]  You: Controlled information - an army needs to give information "so let's script it" - led to media politics

[16:52]  You: and close contact with journalists about

[16:52]  You: what could be shown and not shown.

[16:53]  You: Deciee waht has to be shown and conceal the rest was the policy in the Gulf War

[16:53]  Krysss Galatea is Online

[16:53]  You: A TV viewere could see very little suffering, as part of planned, controlled and management of informaiton

[16:54]  You: Jean Baudrillard's analyses of media and simulacra are very germane here.

[16:54]  You: Are all wars so quick these days?

[16:54]  You: Some aren't - for example - in the Sudan war which has gone on for 1/4 of a century and more

[16:55]  You: 2 million people have died

[16:55]  You: and is made up of something like 97 wars with millions and millions of people killed

[16:55]  You: 2 kinds of wars -

[16:55]  You: A Instant wars

[16:56]  You: Quick, efficient, surgical, - based on information technologies

[16:56]  You: B) wars of poor countries - slow, long, cruel and murderous

[16:56]  You: So, Boston, before we have a break . .

[16:57]  You: the Iraq war has gone on for 5 years now.

[16:57]  You: and about 4,000 people form the west have died, and possibly 90,000 Iraqis have died

[16:58]  You: That's dramatically different than for example the Viet Nam war where 59,000 Americans died, and 1-2 million Vietnamese.

[16:59]  You: The other main points about new forms of warfare is that after the surgical strike, an inforamtion compaign is often used to try and re-institute civil institutions, and then an attempt to return sovereignty occurs - all information or noopolitik processes - and this has happened in Iraq

[17:00]  Jagger Valeeva is Online

[17:00]  You: to some degree, although complicated by a large number of ethnic divisions, and the British shaping its current map at the turn of the last century.

[17:01]  You: So, while the Iraq war hasn't been immediate, it has engaged some of these processes.

[17:01]  You: Observations?

[17:02]  You: Let's take a break and return in ten minutes

[17:02]  You: Yes, Boston, Andromeda?

[17:02]  Andromeda Mesmer: My comments after the break.

[17:02]  You: Great

[17:02]  Boston Hutchinson: It doesn't seem to bepossible todefeat an enemy by modern methods of warfare--only to achieve well-defined, very limited objectives.

[17:02]  Enapa Pennell: The Iraq war, unlike Vietnam, resulted in the atempt on our part to change the normal political processes of the country.

[17:02]  Andromeda Mesmer: AFK for now

[17:03]  matrix05 Infinity is Offline

[17:03]  You: I think the idea of defeating the enemy is transformed, but let's talk about this when we return.

[17:03]  Enapa Pennell: alright

[17:03]  You: Yes, Enapa, Vietnam dramatically informed the US approach in multiple ways.

[17:04]  You: See you at 14 minutes past . . .:)

[17:04]  Breen Mathy is Online

[17:04]  Enapa Pennell: hello Geda, Rain, Boston, and Aphilo. Nice to see you all again.

[17:05]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Enapa.Nice to see you too.

[17:06]  Enapa Pennell: O1, you're new to me. Nice to see another participant.

[17:06]  Geda Hax: Hi there Enapa , nice to see you too , hi all btw

[17:06]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Geda

[17:06]  01 Hifeng: mhm, second time here. hey ;)

[17:07]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi 01. Nice too see you here again.

[17:08]  Boston Hutchinson: Still commuting to work, Geda? How's the traffic?

[17:09]  Geda Hax: Boston , yes ....its worse than ever

[17:09]  Boston Hutchinson: Sorry. Too bad you can't work at home more -- via SL?

[17:09]  Geda Hax: traffic records being beated daily .... * sigh*

[17:10]  Geda Hax: Nope , also changed roles .... this one I have to be there daily interacting with people

[17:10]  Geda Hax: *role

[17:10]  Boston Hutchinson: Must be a good job to be worth it!

[17:11]  Enapa Pennell: I went to something new today. A think tank, the Baker Institute, streamed a set of lectures, live, into SL via quicktime.

[17:11]  Geda Hax: ...its a new challenge indeed however not exactly what was on my plans but well , ces't la vie .

[17:12]  Enapa Pennell: The quality was excellent. We need to get Aphilo set up, so he doesn't have to type all of his remarks.

[17:12]  Boston Hutchinson: Can you view them anytime, Enapa, or was it on a fixed schedule?

[17:12]  Boston Hutchinson: I think he likes the typing

[17:12]  Enapa Pennell: It was live. Like this. The talks were happening in real time.

[17:13]  Boston Hutchinson: because of the comments. We all get to talk more, and that produces more ideas.

[17:13]  Enapa Pennell: yes, that is an advantage of this format. But a synthysis might be possible.

[17:14]  Boston Hutchinson: That would be good.

[17:14]  Andromeda Mesmer: There is a way to avoid so much typing -- a method that teachers use, via a HUD and notecards I think. I'm not certain.

[17:15]  You: Hi All

[17:15]  Enapa Pennell: hmm, that would be an enhancement.

[17:15]  Enapa Pennell: hey there, Aphilo

[17:15]  You: It would be great to have video, Enapa.

[17:15]  Geda Hax: Hi Ap

[17:15]  You: I'd like to have video.

[17:15]  Boston Hutchinson: I've tried cut and paste from a text document, but it only works if you stay on the planned track.

[17:16]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Aphilo

[17:16]  You: But typing allows for a specific kind of interaction.

[17:16]  You: I agree, Enapa.

[17:16]  Enapa Pennell: yes, Boston pointed that out.

[17:16]  You: Do you have the url Andromeda?

[17:16]  You: Hi Geda!

[17:16]  Andromeda Mesmer: I like the typing -- sorry, url for ? the HUD?

[17:17]  You: Yes

[17:17]  You: So thoughts about the ways in which the practice and planning of warfare has changed?

[17:18]  Andromeda Mesmer: No, sorry. But there are some around, and I have one which I haven't tried out yet -- somebody made it for his own use, and gave me a trial copy too.

[17:18]  You: Ok

[17:18]  Michele Mrigesh is Online

[17:18]  Boston Hutchinson: I think warfare is about to undergo another radical transformation, via mesh networks & robotics

[17:18]  Andromeda Mesmer: I don't know what the TUI NEO teachers use -- but somehow they feed notes into it -- and stop fequently, to see about answering questions.

[17:19]  Enapa Pennell: The practice has changed dramatically. As you pointed out, Ap, the surgical strike and the objective goals are now well defined. We can win wars.

[17:19]  You: Yes, IT will continue to add significantly to warfare.

[17:19]  Boston Hutchinson: But it really doesn't work now, and I doubt that technology will fix it.

[17:19]  Enapa Pennell: The problems we face are in winning the peaces.

[17:19]  You: How will the network mentality and flexibility relating to these developments change its practice and planning, Boston?

[17:20]  Perry Proudhon is Offline

[17:20]  Andromeda Mesmer: Time to quote Queen Elizabeth I -- she said something like "I dislike wars. Their outcomes are never certain." She had a fine classical eduction, and was quoting a Roman -- historian maybe.

[17:20]  Andromeda Mesmer: True then, true today.

[17:20]  Boston Hutchinson: robots will establish networks on the ground, providing intimate detailed knowledge of the environment

[17:21]  You: If the nature of war has fundamentally changed due to IT, in smart wars, how will IT continue to do so?

[17:21]  Veeyawn Spoonhammer is Offline

[17:21]  Boston Hutchinson: This will produce more precision, fewer casualties maybe.

[17:21]  You: Mortality has declined dramatically since Viet Nam in 'smart wars' - whether or not this will continue is something history will show.

[17:21]  Boston Hutchinson: But you can't break the will of a people

[17:22]  Boston Hutchinson: It just doesn't work.

[17:22]  Boston Hutchinson: And you can't win without doing that

[17:22]  Enapa Pennell: exactly, Boston.

[17:23]  You: This book is significant in the understanding of noopolitik and develoments with war -

[17:23]  You: John Arquilla & David Ronfeldt: "The Emergence of Noopolitik: Toward an American Information Strategy", Rand 1999

[17:23]  You: They worked for Rand, and were funded by the military.

[17:24]  Enapa Pennell: CCC. Command, Control and Communications work for planing and execution. But an information society and a first world culture are oil and water. They don't mix well.

[17:24]  Andromeda Mesmer: You can actually break their will -- if you manage to drive a large number out. In the case of Iraq, there are over 2 million -- something like 2.2? million refugees outside iraq in the neighbouring countries, and another 2 million displaced inside Iraq, who are putting a strain on the local economies and food supply, schools and so forth.

[17:24]  You: The education aspect, after the surgical strike, as well as the returning sovereignty aspect, rewrites aspects of warfare, that may affect the idea of breaking the will of the people, partly becasue that was a disastrous failure in Viet Nam.

[17:24]  SamBivalent Spork is Offline

[17:25]  Andromeda Mesmer: Well, that was disastrous for the US, not for the Vietnmaese.

[17:25]  Boston Hutchinson: And Iraq still has more than one faction determined to fight forever.

[17:25]  Andromeda Mesmer: Ultimately -- ignoring the deaths of course.

[17:26]  You: Yes, Enapa . . . maintaining troop levels in Iraq at steady levels may well be simply a way to have a Western force near oil supplies, but this isn't real politic where the west occupies

[17:26]  Boston Hutchinson: In Japan and Germany, the devastation was so complete that the will or the people changed. I don't think it's happened since.

[17:26]  You: For both, Andromeda 1 - 2 million people died on the Vietnamese side.

[17:26]  Enapa Pennell: Which is also the state in the Sudan. Ethnic rivalries, determined to continue at all costs.

[17:26]  Andromeda Mesmer: Possibly 3 million in Vietnam. I have seen that number.

[17:27]  You: Both countries, with warlike pasts, have cultivated profoundly peaceful policies since.

[17:27]  You: Yes, Andromeda

[17:28]  Brian Whiteberry is Offline

[17:28]  Boston Hutchinson: They had a profoundly peaceful side before the war, but it was occluded and suppressed.

[17:28]  You: So organizing warfare for short term overwhelming force, in addition to organizing for long term mass war

[17:29]  Andromeda Mesmer: Both countries were remade, with huge amounts of reconstruction money, and in neither case was the population resisting after the official surrender. But there was no official surrender in Iraq --

[17:29]  You: emerged as a societal response to body bags , in turn repsonded to by technology.

[17:30]  Andromeda Mesmer: Saddam never surrendered, and his deputy, Al-Douri is head of one of the Baathist party factions, and says he is continuing the battle to drive out the US.

[17:30]  You: Q: If technological superiority is key to this change in warfare, why does the US share technologies with otehr countries?

[17:30]  Boston Hutchinson: Overwhelming force doesn't win if you're not willing to kill the enemy and destroy their ecomomy, and we're not, rightly so.

[17:30]  You: True

[17:31]  Enapa Pennell: In Iraq, the oil ministries will not give fuel to the electric, so power is lacking in a country rich in energy. Information tech and it's influence, only works when there are conduits.

[17:31]  Boston Hutchinson: So they can manufacture it for us, Aphilo.

[17:31]  You: The US shares information technologies for the following reasons

[17:31]  You: Yes, Enapa, also.

[17:32]  You: A) There is a national security control process, so only certain technologies are shared.

[17:32]  You: B) The U.S. cannot act alone in the world, so we have to share with NATO

[17:32]  You: and through nATO

[17:33]  You: And C) warpons are a fundamental part of the economy, and they are for sale.

[17:33]  Andromeda Mesmer: If technology is not shared, hen other counries can either steal it or rediscover it on their own. Just troublesome to do so.

[17:33]  Boston Hutchinson: and consumer technologies are outpacing military technolgies.

[17:33]  You: And this leads to a contradiction between economic an national security interests

[17:33]  Andromeda Mesmer: Right, Boston.

[17:34]  You: YEs

[17:34]  You: and that may benefit peace - corporations, except weapons-related ones, want a peaceful world stage - it's better for business.

[17:34]  Boston Hutchinson: And maybe that will help solve the problem, replacing war with economic competition and cultural communication. Maybe.

[17:35]  You: TECHNOLOGY AS A PROBLEM

[17:35]  You: The media's role

[17:35]  You: One of the reasons that the Viet Nam war became so unpopular was TV

[17:35]  You: And Walter Cronkite, the news anchor, played a key role

[17:36]  You: The next point I'd like to make is that the emergence of noopolitik was key to these developments

[17:37]  You: I can provide you the full text of

[17:37]  You: John Arquilla & David Ronfeldt: "The Emergence of Noopolitik: Toward an American Information Strategy", Rand 1999

[17:37]  You: just ask -

[17:38]  You: Noopolitik is in opposition to traditional German "realpolitik"

[17:38]  Andromeda Mesmer: I'd like that -- is it online?

[17:38]  You: Realpolitik involves political pragmatism in the terrain of international politics

[17:38]  You: (Let's talk after class, A).

[17:38]  You: There aren't any real principles

[17:39]  You: And it involves deal making

[17:39]  You: It's a kind of absolute pragmatism in international affairs.

[17:39]  You: Many countries whole strategy is based on realpolitik

[17:40]  Andromeda Mesmer: It is amoral too -- and whatever works principle.

[17:41]  You: If a country has a weak international politic, it may be increasilyt vulnerable, so it's based on the notion that one can ULTIMATELY go to war on behalf of a country.

[17:41]  You: and often happend when the threat of triggering war and building an alliance

[17:41]  You: is weak

[17:41]  You: When the US bombs Iraq

[17:42]  You: Realpolitik has no teeth, therefore new forms of strategic politics in the national arena take shape through noopolitik

[17:43]  You: Realpolitik is usually defended on principle - should

[17:43]  Shava Suntzu is Online

[17:43]  You: we defend on the part of democracy?

[17:43]  You: The use of violence - ultimately for realpolitik - says taht if you are strong you will prevail.

[17:44]  You: In noo

[17:44]  Boston Hutchinson: In my experience, in Germany, Realpolotilitik was mostly used in relation to East Germany and getting along with the Soviets during the cold war.

[17:44]  You: Yes, Boston. Noopolitik based

[17:44]  Diego Ibanez is Offline

[17:44]  Boston Hutchinson: *Realpolitik

[17:44]  You: is based in a world in which public opinion is essential to natioanl security

[17:44]  Boston Hutchinson: somehow i\I mangled that word!

[17:45]  You: and where one can not escalate wars, so nations have to engage in information politics.

[17:45]  You: Image making here is an essential platform

[17:46]  You: Finding common ground with other states and the public opinion of other states is also key

[17:46]  You: Say, for example, the principle is democracy,

[17:46]  You: the approach would be to engage with public opinion in other democracies over engagement in certain battles.

[17:47]  Boston Hutchinson: This doesn't seem to work when ideologies are completely incompatible.

[17:47]  You: It involves liking political democracy and sharing respect.

[17:47]  You: Then, one tries to develop common ground . . . otherwise realpolitik

[17:48]  You: So moving from pure force to media politics, image making and the convcition in terms of values and sharing tem

[17:48]  You: 3rd point

[17:48]  You: The transformation of Technologies, vis-a-vis cyberwars

[17:48]  You: which are new forms of war that have just begun.

[17:49]  You: But let's stop here and chat for remaining ten minutes, about the way war is transforming due to information technology.

[17:49]  You: What other ways do you see developing?

[17:50]  You: If any?

[17:50]  You: especially as technologies develop?

[17:50]  Boston Hutchinson: I think the Iraq war is inspiring the development of a virtual reality version of urban battle spaces.

[17:50]  Andromeda Mesmer: Well, on both sides of a war, such as in iraq, information between soldiers/fighters on both sides goes at a much faster rate.

[17:51]  Andromeda Mesmer: I think the US solders are also in closer touch and constant communication with their families back in the US.

[17:51]  You: Here's the text -

[17:51]  You: http://www.questia.com/PM.qst?a=o&d=103995568

[17:52]  You: John Arquilla & David Ronfeldt: "The Emergence of Noopolitik: Toward an American Information Strategy", Rand 1999

[17:52]  You: Yes, Andromeda

[17:52]  You: that's another interesting aspect of war in the IT revolution.

[17:53]  You: Historically the military has been based on a very hierarrchical structure.

[17:53]  You: What happens when soldiers in a troop on the ground have more real time information that might effect life and death situations, where

[17:54]  You: sending this information back to a commander and then getting a response, would possible cost lives.

[17:54]  You: Will this re-write the nature of the structure of the military?

[17:54]  You: And if so how?

[17:55]  Jon Seattle is Offline

[17:55]  Enapa Pennell: One of the interesting new information war tools is the use of the US control of web site registries. Eliminating painful web sites by removing their ability to be found.

[17:55]  You: Information technologies empower end users, and decentralize and level many processes that were once very vertical and hierarchical

[17:55]  You: Tell us how that works, Enapa - this is a censorship issue

[17:56]  You: It's a blacklist of undesirable URLs ?

[17:56]  You: where the military defines what undesirable is.

[17:56]  Geda Hax: that makes sense to me

[17:56]  Geda Hax: to filter what these guys get

[17:57]  Sean18 McCarey is Offline

[17:57]  Enapa Pennell: The central registry, AREN, has recently removed several sites. No IP space, no bad information.

[17:57]  Geda Hax: in fact I need to go now , thanks AP .. see you guys next wed

[17:57]  You: and which comes in contradiction with freedom of speech principles that are part of the fabric of the US constitution and life here.

[17:57]  You: Nice to see you Geda

[17:57]  Enapa Pennell: Bye Geda

[17:57]  You: How do they deal with freedom of speech questions?

[17:57]  Enapa Pennell: Who said we play fair?

[17:58]  Sean18 McCarey is Online

[17:58]  Enapa Pennell: The sites were not American. So they sidesteped the issue the same way they do the "enemy combatants" issue.

[17:58]  You: Because the internet is distributed, there probably are ways to continue to post it - China and Saudi censor information, but I suspect due to the constitution that the US does less of this.

[17:59]  You: I see

[17:59]  Enapa Pennell: If you're not an American, you're not protected by the Constitution.

[17:59]  Boston Hutchinson: How many Domain Name Servers are beyond US and allied control?

[18:00]  You: But the UN also enshrines freedom of speech.

[18:00]  You: It's a basic human right.

[18:00]  Perry Proudhon is Online

[18:00]  You: ...per many countries . . .

[18:00]  Jagger Valeeva is Offline

[18:00]  You: and even as censorship occurs

[18:00]  Enapa Pennell: Many are, Boston. But not the major ones .com .org and .net

[18:00]  Boston Hutchinson: So is posting a recipe for biological warfare agents OK?

[18:00]  SamBivalent Spork is Online

[18:01]  You: Good question . . .

[18:01]  Andromeda Mesmer: I was reading there were attempts on the part of the US to cut off access to Cuban online newspapers. I do know that it appears to be easier to access the Italian translation of a Cuban newspaper than an English language version. But that could just be that there are more English speakers trying to access that part.

[18:01]  You: There are so many reasons beyond ideology and in response to it, to maintain freedom of speech . . .

[18:02]  You: and one can always go through other countries

[18:02]  Perry Proudhon is Offline

[18:02]  You: Tor and Vidalia are among some of the best and easiest ways to surf the web anonymously

[18:02]  You: They send your requests through alternative nodes, a network made up with their software

[18:03]  You: Quite a cat and mouse game 'out there'

[18:03]  Enapa Pennell: I read english versions of Pravda. I've also found Aljazeera's web site hard to reach.

[18:03]  You: Well, let's continue this convesation next week.

[18:03]  You: I'll post this transcript at http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

[18:04]  Enapa Pennell: Thanks, Aphilo.

[18:04]  You: Nice to see you. We'll continue with ways in which warfare has changed, vis-a-vis noopolitik again.

[18:04]  You: Thank for coming!

[18:04]  Boston Hutchinson: Thanks, Aphilo.

[18:05]  01 Hifeng: thanks.

[18:05]  01 Hifeng is Offline