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June 4 2008 Soc and Info Tech course transcript

Page history last edited by PBworks 15 years, 9 months ago

Society and Information Technology in Second Life

Wednesdays, January 9 - July 30, 2008, 4-6, SLT/PT, 7-9 pm ET

on Berkman island in Second Life - http://slurl.com/secondlife/Berkman/114/70/25

 Course homepage - http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

 

Instructor: Scott MacLeod (not on Harvard's faculty) = Aphilo Aarde (in Second Life)

http://scottmacleod.com/papers.htm

 

 

June 4 2008 Soc and Info Tech class transcript

 

 

 

[15:58]  Andromeda Mesmer: Hi, Aphilo

[15:59]  Boston Hutchinson is Online

[15:59]  You: Hi, Andromeda!

[15:59]  Juria Yoshikawa is Online

[16:00]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Aphilo

[16:00]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Andromeda

[16:00]  Andromeda Mesmer: Hi Boston

[16:01]  You: Hi Boston!

[16:01]  You: Hello Amandeep and natalina

[16:01]  Claryssa Schmidt is Online

[16:01]  Natalina DeVinna: greetings to all ;-)

[16:01]  Amandeep Timeless: howdee

[16:01]  Gwyneth Llewelyn is Offline

[16:01]  sara Gartenberg: hi aphilo

[16:02]  You: Hello Sara and Rain

[16:02]  You: This is a course on Society and Information Technology

[16:03]  You: http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

[16:03]  You: One thing that's so interesting about classes in SL

[16:03]  You: is that type chat can become a kind of 'engine' for idea generation

[16:04]  Widget Whiteberry scans the web page

[16:04]  You: where we can all talk, and the social psychology of a RL class is potentially transformed

[16:04]  You: Please feel free in this course to make comments and contribute to the unfolding conversation

[16:05]  You: I will post the transcript

[16:05]  You: Today I'd like to draw on some aspects of the IT REvolution

[16:05]  You: we've examined in past months to

[16:05]  You: ask what a global, degre-granting, free, open university

[16:06]  You: with Harvard as a key player.

[16:06]  You: would look like from a kind of ideal-type perspective

[16:06]  You: For example, if OLPC (One Laptop Per Child) could

[16:07]  You: provide course or information access to anyone around the world in real time and

[16:07]  You: in a virtual world, in the any language

[16:07]  You: what would a University that could provide such access look like?

[16:09]  You: First, in terms of structure,

[16:09]  Widget Whiteberry: and why would a university be motivated to provide that access?

[16:09]  You: In terms of funding, structure, Information Technologies, and rational, among other aspects.

[16:09]  You: Good question - and please - this is an opportunity for questions

[16:09]  You: and using a wiki model as an example

[16:10]  Widget Whiteberry nods

[16:11]  You: I got disconnected for a while

[16:11]  You: Sorry

[16:11]  Widget Whiteberry: phew

[16:12]  You: For one, whiteberry, it potentially benefits those who don't have access to education, and offers course material that

[16:12]  You: some countries or universities, might not be able to offer

[16:12]  Widget Whiteberry: yes, but are universities motivated to provide that kind of access?

[16:13]  Widget Whiteberry: it would be very meritocracy oriented

[16:13]  You: Second, it would further, for example, the Berkman Center for Internet and Society's, as well as Charlie Nesson's, vision of openness vis-a-vis education

[16:14]  You: as well as the opportunity to

[16:14]  You: shape University as a meta player in the development of the Internet

[16:14]  Draxtor Despres is Online

[16:14]  You: which is another vision of the Berkman Center for Internet and Society

[16:15]  You: Good question, Widget - yes, many Universities in the context of their home countries

[16:15]  You: are structured to provide open access to their citizens for very low cost

[16:15]  Widget Whiteberry: that's an exciting prospect

[16:15]  You: Many Scandanavian countries, Germany, and many others provide free or very low coast, high quality educations

[16:16]  You: It's very exciting . . .

[16:16]  You: The US has chosen a structure for education that places costs on the students

[16:17]  You: And I think such an educational structure

[16:17]  Sonja Strom is Online

[16:17]  You: limits the opportunities for many

[16:17]  ThePrincess Parisi is Online

[16:17]  Michele Mrigesh is Offline

[16:17]  You: Now, too, for example, MIT's Open Course Ware project

[16:18]  Boston Hutchinson: It seems that MIT (with Open Courseware) and probably many other top universities are motivated to make their material available for free. I don't see how that would reduce their enrollment, but what effect will it have on the smaller, less elite schools, if a Harvard education is available fro free?

[16:18]  You: makes high quality university education free for 1800 courses

[16:18]  You: but without interactive faculty members, and requires self motivated students - autodidacts revel in MIT OCW

[16:19]  You: What do all of you think?

[16:19]  You: Good question, Brent -

[16:19]  Widget Whiteberry: Harvard is very * well endowed

[16:19]  You: Would it allow smaller schools to focus locally?

[16:20]  You: on what they see as important on-the-ground and thus work with Harvard?

[16:20]  Andromeda Mesmer: I think that some of the drawbacks of free courses -- the lack of interaction with other students -- can be compensated -- no reason why groups could not get online somewhere and study virtually, discuss things as we are doing right now.

[16:20]  Widget Whiteberry: some of the folks who get their education free through H or MIT will become supporters a generation from now

[16:20]  You: Yes, I think Harvard's endowment offers it the possibility to envision and realize such a prospect, should Harvard want to

[16:20]  Widget Whiteberry: the latitude

[16:21]  You: And perhaps to illustrate how such a global, degree-granting, free, open University

[16:21]  Andromeda Mesmer: Also -- I don't think that MIT has any plans to offer degrees for free right now -- does any place?

[16:21]  You: might fund itself.

[16:21]  You: Exactly, Andromeda

[16:21]  Barbie Starr is Offline

[16:22]  You: In fact, I think there would be an unlimited supply of post docs, and emerging faculty members who might jump on the opportunity

[16:22]  You: to teach in a global, degree-granting, online university

[16:22]  You: in a virtual world that's emerging

[16:22]  You: especially if compensation were part of it.

[16:23]  You: The possibility of unlimited potential faculty members is another rich aspect of this . . .

[16:23]  DJWeyayman Howlett is Offline

[16:24]  You: So granting degrees presents an interesting challenge, because this is what is in short supply, university-wise

[16:24]  Boston Hutchinson: I wonder whether it might be possible to start a new virtual university from scratch now, drawing on the published course material from many schools and employing professors who are interested in starting something really innovative.

[16:24]  DJWeyayman Howlett is Online

[16:24]  You: and this is an indication of what people know, and the degree to which they know it ...

[16:24]  You: Yes, perhaps Boston

[16:25]  You: Already a number of University possibilities are emerging online

[16:25]  Andromeda Mesmer: One important drawback in online classes is that an important part of some courses is lab experiments and various lab tests. Now here, I really do not see a good solution -- except perhaps in local high schools.

[16:25]  You: MIT OCW, ITunes University, Harvard's Berkman Center's CyberOne course

[16:25]  Andromeda Mesmer: I mean -- using the lab facilities there.

[16:26]  Widget Whiteberry: or community colleges

[16:26]  You: The Univ of California Globetrotter and other course video series - there are a lot of these around the world are examples of already free, existing, online education.

[16:26]  Widget Whiteberry: which do have a mission that involves popular education

[16:26]  You: Re: labs and experiments, Andromeda,

[16:27]  You: someone asked me the other day why think about converging Google Earth and Second Life, for example.

[16:27]  You: Combining Google Earth, Second Life and Open Sim, and Croquet

[16:27]  You: (Mission is key here, Widget - we'll get to that in a moment)

[16:28]  You: would offer a variety of opportunities vis-a-vis virtual laboratories, for one

[16:28]  Widget Whiteberry nods at Aphilo

[16:28]  You: Already much of what happens in a classroom is already technologically available in SL

[16:28]  You: Video streaming into SL, type chat, white boards, voice

[16:29]  You: plus the ability to build, and converge new technologies

[16:29]  You: So, except for labs, the Info technologies are all present for a global, degree-granting, free, open University

[16:30]  You: What is lacking is a kind of mission

[16:31]  You: and ways to structure such a University, and systematically develop courses that are world wide in orientation

[16:31]  You: But of course, wikis, MIT OCW, iTunes, and Second Life

[16:31]  You: are nascent structures

[16:32]  You: So what is lacking is both a mission, a vision, approaches to funding, and an explicit structure

[16:33]  You: that builds on what the Info Tech Revolution is developing and making possible.

[16:33]  Widget Whiteberry: aren't those more tools than structure?

[16:33]  You: ... as well as degree granting possibilities

[16:34]  You: It depends how one looks at the word 'structure' - if they are institutions, then

[16:34]  Amandeep Timeless: is there a SL 'fulll campus?

[16:34]  You: there is no institution that I know of that is explicitly designing a global University

[16:34]  You: meaning Amandeep?

[16:35]  Amandeep Timeless: where the total curriculum is available. labs, notwithstanding

[16:35]  You: And if structure refers to a wiki approach, where

[16:35]  Andromeda Mesmer: 35 to 50 number limitation?

[16:35]  You: the IT structure gives rise to a conversation in both a liberal arts sense including the sciences - a key aspect of my definition of education here

[16:36]  Amandeep Timeless: there are places for individual classes, but they are not integrated

[16:36]  You: There is a University of Second Life

[16:36]  Amandeep Timeless: people will go to 'watering holes'

[16:36]  Andromeda Mesmer: You can find more courses than you can possibly take, by using "Search" ... maybe you create your own course of studies, integrated in your own way?

[16:37]  You: and there are perhaps between 100 and 200 educational institutions - Universities like Harvard, MIT, Princeton, and Stanford, but also high schools and other educational institutions that

[16:37]  Amandeep Timeless: not quite, "build it and they will come" but....

[16:37]  You: have bought islands in-world

[16:37]  Andromeda Mesmer: Put it up on "Search" and they will come :)

[16:37]  Diego Ibanez is Online

[16:37]  You: The most complete course structure that I've seen, Amandeep, is MIT OCW

[16:38]  You: and which is the best model, thus far

[16:38]  Andromeda Mesmer: Agreed, Aphilo ...

[16:38]  Amandeep Timeless: i mean, one lesser mission might be to have a full class curriculum that might handle the first two years of a four year degree....

[16:38]  Andromeda Mesmer: I was thinking of the myriad courses that I have seen in "Search" on SL.

[16:38]  Boston Hutchinson: I think a virtual university would have to have a campus outside of SL (in addition to one inside) in Croquet or OpenSim or another enviroment with additional features and maybe supporting larger gatherings or avatars.

[16:38]  You: I think 40 avatar per sim limit is extensible - through multiple islands, etc.,

[16:39]  You: although a group conversation - a key aspect in some courses - may not work that well

[16:39]  You: Metanomics's lectures in Second Life have had good turnout, and the sims have slowed down

[16:40]  You: Yes, Amandeep, starting perhaps, with Harvard as a key player

[16:40]  You: Yes, Boston - I think a convergence, as I mentioned above

[16:40]  You: of combining Google Earth, Second Life and Open Sim, and Croquet

[16:41]  Boston Hutchinson: If you're building a university, building a new virtual world with more flexibility seems like a minor problem.

[16:41]  You: is important . . .

[16:41]  Widget Whiteberry: Small group conversations, in IM, could be spread across many sims

[16:41]  You: in what order is a question such a University could approach

[16:41]  Boston Hutchinson: A university could be the force that stimulates portability across worlds.

[16:42]  You: Yes, Boston, so many of the 'components' are already available, waiting to converge

[16:42]  You: A mission - let's work on one now -

[16:42]  You: and an organization laying out how and when

[16:42]  You: ... with what resources, are important

[16:43]  You: Some additional benefits of building a virtual world University / universe

[16:44]  You: is that, for example, people could build in-world to replace building in real life, thus potentially transforming issues of construction over-development

[16:44]  You: Such a virtual world could also be an invaluable planning tool for planet earth

[16:44]  You: and it could even help with global warming as well as also tourism

[16:45]  You: If people started traveling in a realistic as well as fantastic

[16:45]  You: virtual world that was extensive, and that we all as individuals and groups made, we might not burn fossil fuel as much, for example

[16:46]  You: What about mission?

[16:46]  You: So the possibilities are multiply and fascinating.

[16:46]  You: And how would degree-granting work?

[16:46]  Widget Whiteberry: ?me shares a link that relates to the philosophy behind a mission that would lead to this kind of open system:

[16:46]  You: And what organization might make this happen?

[16:46]  Widget Whiteberry: http://www.openleft.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=4991

[16:46]  Daisyblue Hefferman is Offline

[16:46]  Amandeep Timeless: maybe a specialized sim-yrpe thingy (that'sthe scientific term) as an ajdunct vr environment that was specialized with 'lab simluation' elements and programming

[16:46]  Widget Whiteberry: that's one of three peices

[16:46]  You: And how would one develop endowment funding to be invested in socially conscious funds?

[16:47]  Amandeep Timeless: *sim-type thingy

[16:47]  You: Thanks, Widget! Can you briefly summarize, or copy and paste a snippet?

[16:47]  You: Absolutely, Amandeep

[16:47]  Widget Whiteberry: this is an analysis

[16:47]  Widget Whiteberry: yep

[16:48]  You: IN modeling a virtual University / Universe

[16:48]  Widget Whiteberry: of the cognitive dimension of policies related to democratic governments

[16:48]  You: the sky is the limit:)

[16:48]  Amandeep Timeless: even then...

[16:48]  You: In fact modeling the planets makes sense - Boston and I already saw a beginning version of this in Croquet

[16:48]  Widget Whiteberry: her are 4 paragraphs

[16:48]  Widget Whiteberry: Political theorist Robert Dahl once noted that twenty-five centuries of debate about democracy had not "produced agreement on some of the most fundamental questions about" it. It turns out that Dahl, like many theorists and historians, wildly underestimated the duration of the discussion. It's more like 5,000 years, or even 10,000 years. But he was right about the confusion. And if we don't understand what democracy is, or what the human values are that inform it, how can we achieve its promise?

[16:49]  Widget Whiteberry: When we examine the health of our political practices, differing concepts of democracy lead to different conclusions. Advocates of classical democracy, better termed popular democracy, focus on political equality and believe democracy to be a system in which the wisdom of individual citizens, expressed directly by initiative or through the election of representatives from among their neighbors, should determine outcomes. Elite democrats believe that human nature is essentially competitive and hierarchical, that issues are too complex for most people's level of knowledge, and that democracy requires only that some of the people participate in election contests, choosing leaders from among more knowledgeable and naturally gifted and powerful elites.

[16:49]  You: Yes, engaging democratic processes makes sense

[16:49]  Widget Whiteberry: For the advocates of popular democracy, low voter turnout and systematic corruption of election processes are disasters. Concern for the common interest and individual autonomy and responsibility are balanced. Most importantly, popular democrats believe support for representative government depends upon bonds of sympathy and understanding among citizens and between the chosen representatives and those represented.

[16:49]  Widget Whiteberry: For elite democrats, as long as some reasonably well-informed citizens participate, tyranny is somewhat inhibited by a latent threat of voter rebellion. Turnout levels matter little (as long as it's the right people who vote); corruption of election practices is often shrugged off as the unhappy but inevitable result of competitive human nature. Self-interest prevails, and a little democracy goes a long way. Important decisions are left to a knowledgeable elite, but the people are given at least a token opportunity to have their say.

[16:49]  You: Thanks Widget, that's probably enough for now!

[16:49]  Widget Whiteberry: Glenn has been in-world

[16:49]  Widget Whiteberry: more than

[16:49]  Widget Whiteberry: :)

[16:50]  You: The Berkman Center explicitly engages democratic processes that are far reaching

[16:50]  Daisyblue Hefferman is Online

[16:50]  You: But engaging the history of Harvard's Berkman Center for Internet and Society's last ten years in this respect

[16:50]  You: makes sense

[16:51]  Stirling Allen: Greetings

[16:51]  Andromeda Mesmer: Interesting, Widget

[16:51]  You: So, before we take a break, and begin to think more explicitly about a mission, specific Info Technologies, and other questions,

[16:51]  You: Hi Stirling

[16:52]  You: Are there any questions I or we haven't responded to, which you've already typed in?

[16:52]  You: I will post this transcript - http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

[16:53]  You: so that, in some ways, the conversation can continue after tonight - these transcripts are a form of knowledge-production, as well.

[16:53]  You: Questions before we take a break?

[16:54]  You: http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

[16:54]  You: Thoughts observations - check out the transcript over the break, if inclined

[16:54]  Stirling Allen: Gretings Aphilo

[16:54]  You: Such a global, degree-granting, open, free University, with Harvard as a key player

[16:54]  Michele Mrigesh is Online

[16:55]  You: would be innovative, and potentially engage developments in IT in multiply ways . . .

[16:55]  Amandeep Timeless: thx

[16:55]  You: So let's come back at 7 minutes past the hour . . . I'll post the transcript now

[16:55]  You: See you soon ! and thanks for coming!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[17:07]  You: Hello all

[17:07]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi

[17:08]  Widget Whiteberry: hi

[17:08]  sara Gartenberg: hi :)

[17:08]  You: Harvard's Berkman Center for Internet and Society's mission, as one starting place, (http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/about)

[17:09]  You: to develop a mission for a global, degree-granting, open, free University, with Harvard as a key player

[17:09]  You: is to

[17:09]  You: to explore and understand cyberspace; to study its development, dynamics, norms, and standards; and to assess the need or lack thereof for laws and sanctions.

[17:09]  You: The Berkman's Center's mission, a research center, is "premised on the observation that what we seek to learn is not already recorded. Our method is to build out into cyberspace, record data as we go, self-study, and share. Our mode is entrepreneurial nonprofit."

[17:10]  You: The Berkman Center has also just been accorded full University Center status at Harvard,

[17:10]  You: but without the ability to grant degres

[17:10]  You: *degrees

[17:11]  You: One key way to explore and understand cyberspace, to further the Berkman Center's mission as a research center

[17:12]  You: is to build a global university, which would include a law school, that focused on internet law

[17:13]  You: as well as privilege the social sciences, as having the methodologies for understanding the development, dynamics, norms and standards of such processes as the Information Technology revolution as its developments.

[17:13]  You: And of course, a global University would further the research center aspect of the mission - and make possible

[17:14]  You: ongoing original research.

[17:14]  You: And building a virtual world University would be a key aspect of building into cyberspace

[17:14]  You: recording data, studying these social processes

[17:14]  You: and sharing

[17:15]  whiteboard: unknown message: ao off

[17:15]  whiteboard: unknown message: ao on

[17:15]  You: And there would be plenty of opportunities for the nonprofit entrepreneurial

[17:16]  You: aspects of the Berkman Center, for, while a free University for students, drawing on an endowment based in socially conscious funds, as well as drawing on government funding (MIT gets a large amount of money from the government)

[17:16]  You: around the world for funding

[17:17]  You: would shape business opportunities as well...

[17:17]  You: There are some degree granting online Universities - e.g. U of Phoenix

[17:17]  You: but this isn't free

[17:18]  You: and I think if Harvard were a key player here, both content, structure, and standards would differ considerably

[17:18]  You: Thoughts, questions, so far?

[17:18]  Andromeda Mesmer: /snickers, yes it would be quite different.

[17:18]  You: ...vis-a-vis mission?

[17:19]  You: Boston?

[17:19]  Andromeda Mesmer: Yes - the primary motivation of Phoenix is the bottom line.

[17:19]  You: I would also like to touch briefly on some ideas we talked about last week

[17:20]  You: Yes, A . . .I think one key aspect of the mission here would be valuing ideas and conversation, vis-a-vis the

[17:20]  You: ... Harvard's Berkman Center's mission

[17:20]  Stirling Allen: There are new disciplines emerging here, if there is a mission, then it ought to include the discovery of the scope of these new disciplines and approaches.

[17:20]  Boston Hutchinson: There may be some examples of starting a new university fairly recently -- Hampshire College (70's) for example

[17:21]  You: Free for students would privilege ideas over the profit motive.

[17:21]  You: Yes, Stirling, one way to further this conceptual process democratically

[17:21]  You: is to start a wiki, and solicit comment - like RFCs in the development of TCP / IP in the 1970s

[17:22]  You: (Request for Comments - the process that shaped TCP / IP and - Transmission Control Protocol / Information Protocol)

[17:22]  You: Yes, Boston

[17:23]  Boston Hutchinson: Part of the educational mission of a new university is to invent itself. This would be a significant focus for many of the students.

[17:23]  You: So a wiki would enable us to include any number of emerging disciplines and solicit a wide variety of ideas

[17:23]  You: concerning how to empathically provide course content to all 3000-8000 languages using OLPC, but also how to structure such classes, syallabi, etc.

[17:24]  You: And students could play a significant role here, Boston, through the wiki process . . .

[17:24]  You: Hi LoriVonne

[17:24]  LoriVonne Lustre: hi

[17:25]  You: So with so many elements of such a global, degree-granting, free, open University / Universe, with Harvard as a key player, already instantiated, how to inquire about

[17:25]  You: how Harvard might grant degrees? and how to schedule such a process?

[17:26]  You: *so many elements

[17:26]  You: Harvard's schools are conservative in terms of degree-granting, and Harvard extension is a slight possibility,

[17:27]  You: but Harvard College and University seem key here (why not begin from within Harvard only, offering classes in-world to matriculated students for credit?)

[17:27]  You: Thanks - Stirling - please explain what this is?

[17:27]  Boston Hutchinson: Why not let it grant it's own degrees? Hampshire, for example, was very succesfulfrom the first graduating class.

[17:28]  Andromeda Mesmer: I just want to say here, what I know about university evening extension courses, and high school correspondence courses -- something along

[17:28]  Andromeda Mesmer: those lines exists now, and could work.

[17:28]  You: So let this global, degree-granting, free, open University grant its own degrees, without Harvard playing a role?

[17:28]  You: Let's re-visit some ideas from last week .

[17:29]  You: Why not Develop an online, free, degree-granting, open, global university, with Harvard as a key player, at the undergraduate and graduate levels?

[17:29]  You: And start with 4 undergraduate for-credit courses in the fall of 2008 or the spring of 2009, listed in the Harvard catalog, as well as a course at Harvard Law School.

[17:29]  Boston Hutchinson: I think with Hampshire, Amherst and several other schools were involved from the beginning, but Hampshire had its own degrees.

[17:29]  You: Harvard has a degree of credibility, experience, resources, and the Berkman Center has skills, etc

[17:30]  You: then develop these into degree programs. Develop dedicated funding and an endowment for this, invested in socially conscious funds.

[17:30]  You: Using a 10 year horizon, this should / could be possible . . .

[17:30]  You: and continue this conversation in real time through this emergent, open University and information technologies about these technologies.

[17:31]  You: and to do so, let individuals and groups build virtual worlds in Open Sim and Second Life, which then connect as parts of this developing University, to continue this conversation.

[17:31]  You: I posted these ideas also here -

[17:31]  You: http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/questions/berkmanat10

[17:32]  You: on the Question Tool at the final session of Berkman @ 10 in Cambridge, Mass. about 2 weeks ago

[17:32]  You: I think that to extend flexibly Harvard's knowledge-generating networks through creating a virtual university~universe, built by individuals and groups, is a fascinating opportunity and challenge.

[17:32]  You: And Harvard's Berkman Center is skillful at navigating at Harvard

[17:33]  You: While I very much would like to incude a bottom up aspect as central, the Berkman Center seems

[17:33]  You: key

[17:33]  Stirling Allen: Have you done outrach to the large number of groups that are doing knowledge generation in Second Life, and who could potentially provide part of the support network, and perhaps even research backbone of this project?

[17:34]  You: Charlie Nesson and the Berkman C / Harvard could make this a very significant project, which would generate knowledge, jobs, and 'worlds' richly, as well as further focus the Berkman Center's mission.

[17:34]  You: Interesting thought . . . yes, including such experience makes sense . . .

[17:34]  Shava Suntzu is Online

[17:35]  You: but cultivating faculty members skilled at teaching in Second Life

[17:35]  You: and Harvard post docs could be one great resource, for example,

[17:35]  You: and if this were Harvard, this would be easier . . .

[17:36]  You: Here are some further thoughts and speculations about how we might develop and illuminate a far-reaching, networking, degree-granting, virtual-world university:

[17:36]  You: Include new forms of knowledge production, research, and academic courses, in science, medicine, music, law, all academic disciplines,

[17:36]  LoriVonne Lustre: there are many faculty who are extremely skilled at facilitating in SL / virtual worlds

[17:36]  LoriVonne Lustre: and certainly not all of them work for HArvard

[17:36]  You: I can imagine, although I haven't met many in-world yet

[17:37]  You: Beyers-Sellers, a Cornell professor of business is one . . .

[17:37]  Champler Snook is Offline

[17:37]  LoriVonne Lustre: gosh... perhaps you should do that outreach and find out what is happening

[17:37]  LoriVonne Lustre: and not all are affiliated with a university

[17:37]  LoriVonne Lustre: there are some superb college teachers here

[17:37]  You: Yes, and I think content is key here, so Harvard could be helpful here, especially

[17:38]  LoriVonne Lustre: but the only one?

[17:38]  LoriVonne Lustre: yes, I think HArvard could a A player

[17:38]  LoriVonne Lustre: am I missing something here

[17:38]  You: Using MIT OCW as a basis for syllabi and courses is sensible . . .

[17:38]  Beyers Sellers is Online

[17:39]  You: I think starting with Harvard's Berkman Center for Internet and Society, and starting with a kind of wiki approach, would be two good starting places ...

[17:39]  LoriVonne Lustre: I agree...

[17:39]  LoriVonne Lustre: as a starting point

[17:39]  You: ... as well as empathically deliver course content to speakers of all 3000 - 8000 languages with OLPC (one laptop per child), to make life knowledge-rich, better, and more comfortable where-ever people are, in ways end-users can then develop.

[17:39]  Movies1963 Beck is Online

[17:39]  You: ... . And let end-users shape this process of developing an open, global University, through a kind of Request for Comment on Wikis, for example.

[17:39]  You: Through this, we all might shape a far-reaching, global university together.

[17:40]  You: Include comprehensive and varied course material for children and teenagers.

[17:40]  Beyers Sellers is Offline

[17:40]  LoriVonne Lustre: but once you set up a wiki and let this community loose on it, it would no longer be within the total domain of HArvard

[17:40]  LoriVonne Lustre: and HArvard would have to accept that

[17:40]  LoriVonne Lustre: are they ready to do that?

[17:40]  You: In addition, although this is a ways off, . In addition, develop avatars that pass the Turing Test conversation-wise, an interactive Richard Rorty hologram, for example, through which people might create dialog-generated knowledge and content, which then leads to very rich flow experiences for all.

[17:41]  You: I just attended Harvard's Berkman Center for Internet and Society's Berkman

[17:41]  You: @ 10 conference in Cambridge, MA on May 15 and 16

[17:41]  MT Lundquist is Offline

[17:41]  You: One key speaker was Jimmy Wales, who has been

[17:42]  You: instrumental in starting and developing wikipedia, the online encyclopedia

[17:42]  You: This is a key example, for the Berkman Center, of what the IT revolution has made possible...

[17:43]  You: so yes, I think the Berkman Center would be open to this ...

[17:43]  You: and thus a part of Harvard, but degree-granting is another matter

[17:43]  Movies1963 Beck is Offline

[17:43]  You: In fact Charlie Nesson, a founder of the Berkman Center, said yes to the idea of degree-granting

[17:44]  You: global, open, free University , with Harvard as a key player at the Gala

[17:44]  You: How this takes shape in reality is another question . . .

[17:45]  Movies1963 Beck is Online

[17:45]  LoriVonne Lustre: well, I would like to continue this discussion

[17:45]  You: So observations, thoughts, questions?

[17:45]  LoriVonne Lustre: but as a Canadian, and indeed as a non-American

[17:45]  You: We have about 15 more minutes this evening, LoriVonne

[17:45]  LoriVonne Lustre: and it is something that I too feel very strongly about

[17:46]  LoriVonne Lustre: we have some significant issues with enrolling students with US orgs

[17:46]  You: Yes, getting multiple perspectives makes sense, and how would degree granting work on a global basis

[17:46]  LoriVonne Lustre: due to privacy issues

[17:46]  You: Harvard, for example, is already a kind of global University, which degrees are recognized around the world . . .

[17:46]  LoriVonne Lustre: and this is hindering even the adoption of some web 2.0 tools that are based in teh US

[17:47]  LoriVonne Lustre: SL included

[17:47]  LoriVonne Lustre: that will be a major issue for anyone from outside the US

[17:47]  You: but getting globally recognized degrees somehow officialy recognized (by the UN?) is another question

[17:47]  LoriVonne Lustre: yes

[17:47]  LoriVonne Lustre: but it you can't get the learners enrolled through partners

[17:48]  You: Kevin, a friend of Charlie Nesson and the Berkman Center's, from Jamaica

[17:48]  LoriVonne Lustre: exactly

[17:48]  LoriVonne Lustre: then what is the point

[17:48]  Andromeda Mesmer: Some years ago, I was told that a South African university was doing superb work in using the radio and correspondence courses to teach.

[17:48]  affrontimariana Arado: hi

[17:48]  LoriVonne Lustre: and we have an exemplary uni -- Athabasca -- that is entirely distance and always has been

[17:48]  You: would be an important source, as well as others from Jamaica, India, Africa, for feedback about what would be helpful . . .

[17:48]  Andromeda Mesmer: In view of the possible problems with a US centered approach -- it might be better to have the degree granting from some place like Trinity University in Dublin

[17:48]  LoriVonne Lustre: close to 30 years now

[17:49]  LoriVonne Lustre: yes, Trinity is doning some amazing things right now

[17:49]  LoriVonne Lustre: and has a very strong presence in virtual worlds

[17:49]  You: Such a consortium of Universities that produce degrees that would have value in various countries is a good idea

[17:50]  LoriVonne Lustre: including instructional design training and explorations of teaching and learning training

[17:50]  LoriVonne Lustre: I would be happier with a consortium

[17:50]  LoriVonne Lustre: of universities and colleges

[17:50]  You: Yes, but I think MIT OCW is another key starting point

[17:50]  Andromeda Mesmer: Ireland does not have any history of colonialism, or aggressive wars, so a university from there would have consierably less baggage.

[17:51]  LoriVonne Lustre: yes, but others are doing that now to

[17:51]  LoriVonne Lustre: OCW

[17:51]  You: Makes sense . . . although a key organizing Center like the Berkman Center might be initially significant

[17:51]  LoriVonne Lustre: clearly you have an agenda Aphilo

[17:52]  LoriVonne Lustre: and while I would like to think that there is an opportunity for open discussion of the possibilities

[17:52]  LoriVonne Lustre: I think that this is not actually your intent

[17:52]  You: As a free, open, degree-granting, global University in virtual worlds, the courses would be varied, and might not carry so much baggage

[17:52]  You: I'm suggesting possibilities -

[17:53]  You: but appreciate the Berkman Center's mission and successes of the past 10 years, as well as their democractic orientation - the wikipedia approach - where a wiki might be an initial starting place, which would be very inclusive, Lorivonne

[17:54]  Arawn Spitteler is Offline

[17:54]  LoriVonne Lustre: Oh I do appreciate that Aphilo

[17:54]  You: To have an organization like them might make this a reality, in ways that other organizing approaches wouldn't

[17:54]  You: and potentially be very inclusive ...

[17:55]  You: so this evening is just an envisioning process, that partly emerges out of this "Society and Information Technology" course on Berkman Island - I haven't seen m

[17:56]  You: many other expressions of such a university - and I'll post the transcript so your thoughts will be included as well :)

[17:56]  LoriVonne Lustre: thank you

[17:56]  Diego Ibanez is Online

[17:56]  LoriVonne Lustre: and I do not mean to be so aggressive

[17:56]  You: http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com/June-4-2008-Soc-and-Info-Tech-course-transcript

[17:56]  LoriVonne Lustre: and not directed

[17:56]  LoriVonne Lustre: but a truly open uni approach would need to be inclusive

[17:57]  LoriVonne Lustre: supported indeed

[17:57]  You: So one key question has to do with inviting the Berkman Center to make this a possibility . . .

[17:57]  You: Yes, TCP / IP just kind of happened on its own, due partly to hacking

[17:58]  You: and a global university hasn't yet happened through hacking, but let's make it happen . . . :)

[17:58]  You: inclusively . . .

[17:58]  LoriVonne Lustre: :-)

[17:59]  You: So, let's continue this conversation next Wednesday

[17:59]  You: Thoughts, questions, observations, information technologies, not yet mentioned?

[18:00]  You: I wonder how to just get faculty members teaching, with a minimum of effort and allow them to participate in a degree granting process . . . so that info tech

[18:00]  Andromeda Mesmer: i guess, in case people aren't aware -- some hackers are doing something about the continued Sl problems. The Nicholaz Patches were created by a German programmer, to improve SL.

[18:01]  You: makes possible a global, degree-granting, open, free University, with a minimum of hassles, and privileges teaching, tutoring and exchanging ideas

[18:01]  You: Great, thanks, Andromeda

[18:02]  Andromeda Mesmer: Apparently, some of Nicholaz' tricks will be incorporated in the next SL viewer --

[18:02]  You: Boston?

[18:02]  You: Great

[18:02]  Boston Hutchinson: I think open-source programmers would be an interesting community from which to draw both students and professors--They could build the school as part of their course work.

[18:02]  You: Remember, past transcripts are posted, for reference . . .

[18:02]  You: In many ways . . .

[18:03]  Andromeda Mesmer: that's going on now -- students given the job of building a copy of school buildings.

[18:03]  You: and they would certainly be a rich and central part of such a project

[18:03]  Boston Hutchinson: :)

[18:03]  Draxtor Despres is Online

[18:03]  You: interesting - finding exploratory faculty members from MIT and Harvard, etc, who find new ways of using SL would be another advantage.

[18:03]  LoriVonne Lustre: I have students creating our learning spaces, and they are NOT recreating real life

[18:04]  You: interesting . . .

[18:04]  You: Both real life and fantastical builds, by groups and individuals can come together via the convergence of

[18:05]  In Kenzo is Offline

[18:05]  You: Google Earth, Second Life and Open Sim, and Croquet, MIT OCW, iTunes University, et al . .

[18:05]  Andromeda Mesmer: Well, both are being done -- I have had some interesting comments about my project to build a scene from a book -- one says, it should look good, use SL tools -- the other says, stick to the book as much as psosible -- but then it may not look as exciting.

[18:05]  You: as well as faculty members . . . So, see you next week! And thanks

[18:05]  LoriVonne Lustre: they are not so much fantastical, as purpose build for virtual worlds...

[18:06]  LoriVonne Lustre: ha Andomeda!

[18:06]  Andromeda Mesmer: An interesting convergence is the music concerts held at the Space Museum -- fantastic view of asteroids whizzing by outside the concert hall windows ...

[18:06]  LoriVonne Lustre: those are wonderful

[18:07]  Andromeda Mesmer: They result in crashing people, but you can't have everything -- at the moment at least :)

[18:07]  LoriVonne Lustre: :-)

18:08]  You: And I think fundraisers for such a global, degree-granting, open, free University, with Harvard as key player, would have much success and opportunity

[18:08]  You: See you next week . . .

[18:08]  You: And thanks

[18:09]  LoriVonne Lustre: good night all

[18:09]  Boston Hutchinson: Thanks for class, Aphilo.

[18:09]  Andromeda Mesmer: Thank *you* Aphilo -- see you next week.

[18:09]  sara Gartenberg: thank you aphilo, and everyone

[18:09]  Claryssa Schmidt: thanks Aphilo

 

 

 

 

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