Society and Information Technology in Second Life

Wednesdays, January 9 - July 30, 2008, 4-6, SLT/PT, 7-9 pm ET

on Berkman island in Second Life - http://slurl.com/secondlife/Berkman/114/70/25

Course homepage - socinfotech.pbwiki.com

 

 

Instructor: Scott MacLeod (not on Harvard's faculty) = Aphilo Aarde (in Second Life)

http://scottmacleod.com/papers.htm

 

 

 

Jan 23 2008 Soc and Info Tech class transcript

 

 

[16:01]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Aphilo

[16:01]  You: Hi Boston and Rain.

[16:01]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Rain

[16:01]  You: Nice to see you.

[16:01]  Rain Ninetails: hi!

[16:02]  You: What are some of the best overviews of SL that you've come across?

[16:02]  You: Interesting classes, interesting innovations, areas that are unique?

[16:03]  You: Hi Claryssa

[16:03]  Claryssa Schmidt: hi

[16:03]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Claryssa

[16:03]  You: SL is very large, and there are many interesting things happening.

[16:03]  Claryssa Schmidt: hi Boston

[16:04]  Boston Hutchinson: I haven't spent much time in SL recently.

[16:04]  You: Are there sites which aggregate, say, classes?

[16:04]  Sarasvati Kohime is Offline

[16:04]  You: And I wonder if any of you know, before we begin, who is responsible for

[16:05]  You: programming avatar movements in SL.

[16:05]  Boston Hutchinson: This class is the main reason I visit SL, but there are some islands that are interesting...

[16:05]  You: Hi Andromeda!

[16:05]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Andromeda

[16:05]  You: Yes.

[16:05]  Andromeda Mesmer: Hi folks -- customer kept me.

[16:05]  You: Nice to see you.

[16:05]  Claryssa Schmidt is Offline

[16:05]  Boston Hutchinson: There are a number of places that are education-related.

[16:06]  You: It's interesting to share new finds in SL.

[16:07]  You: So, last time my connection ended right as we were examining the Silicon Valley and Rt. 128 (Boston) areas

[16:07]  You: And how in the 1960s and 70s, Boston was far ahead in microelectronics and computers

[16:08]  Annette Paster is Offline

[16:08]  You: and these also led to new network technologies, and to developments in genetic engineering.

[16:08]  You: And Silicon Valley caught up.

[16:08]  You: And around these technologies, 2 key factors were at statke

[16:09]  You: First, the industrial strucutre of speculative structures which are suppliers developed.

[16:09]  Rajah Yalin is Online

[16:10]  You: Networks of companeis which were developing knowledge were doing what they did best - developing their innovations.

[16:10]  You: And Universeities do the same.

[16:10]  You: Complex organizations organized around networks - which is a pattern throughout history.

[16:11]  You: And 2) social networks also formed.

[16:11]  Claryssa Schmidt is Online

[16:11]  You: the world of Silicon Valley was made up of individuals, where people built their own companies, and did their own things.

[16:12]  You: People were required to sign confidientiality statements.

[16:12]  You: And In Silicon Valley, these were limited to 6 months.

[16:12]  You: Otherwise, you wouldn't find people to work for you.

[16:12]  You: The edge shifted very quicky.

[16:13]  You: Social networks, where people met after work to talk about work, were the key thing.

[16:13]  You: there was a process of excietment about work, among students and engineers.

[16:14]  You: And those networks and people which were creating their own companies created a milieu of permeability, where nothing was stable.

[16:14]  You: This was a very differetn milieu from that in the Rt. 128 (boston) area, for exmaple.

[16:15]  You: And this was the missing link to understanding these remarkable developments of the IT revolution for a long tim.

[16:15]  You: And AnnaLee Saxenian documented these.

[16:16]  You: So these networks led to synergies, where 2+2 =5, for example, not 4. Why

[16:16]  You: Because putting things together, whose added value is more than the things are separately occurred, due

[16:16]  You: to intereationa and the added value of the elements in the process.

[16:16]  Daisyblue Hefferman is Online

[16:17]  You: The fact that in Silicon Valley culture, people and companies could TALK to one another

[16:17]  You: generated a MILIEU OF INNOVATION.

[16:18]  You: which involved a cluster set of research centeres, companies and venture capital companies, labor markets and

[16:18]  You: professional organizations, which through intereactions created synergies.

[16:19]  You: And despite the traffic, congestion and negative aspects of living in Silicon Valley, people kept coming there to work.

[16:19]  You: People got hooked and never got out.

[16:19]  You: And it is this machine that is creating this revolution.

[16:20]  You: The Japanese tried to reproduce this pattern unsuccessfully, but couldn't, because it was an organic process that led to these developments.

[16:20]  You: Thinking hypothetically, how might one create a miliu of innovation? What are you some of your thoughts, in this context?

[16:20]  Boston Hutchinson: Is this predictable? Will we be saying this about some suburg of Shanghai 20 years from now? Is there a way to guess where it will happen next?

[16:21]  You: Good question. What do each of you think ?

[16:22]  You: We've looked at some of the aspects of this IT revolution , that seem unreproducible.

[16:22]  Boston Hutchinson: I wonder if the increased socialization with co-workers was a result of most people being transplanted from someplace else, leaving their old social networks behind.

[16:22]  You: counterculture - where thinking differently, etc. was very signficant.

[16:22]  You: And there was basically unlimited money from the military, which supported chip development.

[16:23]  You: These aspects are difficult to replicate.

[16:23]  Boston Hutchinson: What aspect of counterculture caused people to start companies?

[16:23]  You: Very . . . The Japanese, for example, are successful at miniturizaiton, and distribution processes through team effort.

[16:24]  You: It was partly the entrepreneurial attitude of Stanford, in conjunction with

[16:25]  You: the production of computer sicence Ph.D.s that accompanied this

[16:25]  You: boom in chip development and innovation - emerging from the move

[16:25]  You: from the east coast of the Fairchild 8 - the group of engineers

[16:26]  You: that came to work with Shockley.

[16:26]  You: And a libertarian mentality, that says I can build my own company, in my own way

[16:26]  You: And, as we've talked about, the cultural milieu of networking.

[16:27]  You: For China to reproduce these, they would need perhaps a very different mentaility, although, of course, new forms of innovation are very possible.

[16:27]  You: What do you think?

[16:28]  You: How does one generate a milieu of technological innovation in new ways.

[16:28]  You: ?

[16:28]  Andromeda Mesmer: A friend of mine is going to China for 2 months, and i expect to hear from him when he gets back -- in detail.

[16:28]  Boston Hutchinson: I think the tendency to socialize with co-workers leads to discussion of starting companies

[16:29]  You: And, associated with counterculture, the hacking ethic was also very signficant - playfulness, creativity, joy and hard work informed many of these innovations.

[16:29]  You: If the fabric of society allows and condones that - and the capital is there.

[16:29]  Andromeda Mesmer: He says that there is a joke in Beijing -- that if a taxi driver leaves for a week, he will not be able to go back to work as a taxi driver because of all the changes -- huge building boom.

[16:29]  Sean18 McCarey is Online

[16:29]  Veeyawn Spoonhammer is Online

[16:30]  You: I'm curious Andromeda, what your friend will find. The Chinese government does seem to try to retain control over many socioeconomic functions.

[16:30]  Andromeda Mesmer: There does seem to be huge enthusiasm in China about its future.

[16:30]  Boston Hutchinson: I wonder what drives the development in China. Is it entrepreneurial attitude? Or capital? Or something else?

[16:30]  Andromeda Mesmer: Sure -- but apparently, anything goes -- legal or illegal -- jus about == when it comes to businesses in China.

[16:30]  You: Yes, there's a huge labor force, that is technologically oriented and capable, and large numbers of people which are still quite poor, on a world wide basis.

[16:31]  Andromeda Mesmer: Another friend expressed a huge shock -- seeing a fellow wearing a loin cloth, talking on a cell phone.

[16:31]  You: I think it's entrepreneurialism, but often deriving from processes developed elsewhere.

[16:32]  Andromeda Mesmer: I do know that the Chinese are working on establishing 20 world-class universities in China -- and some of the existing ones are really great now, and have been for many years.

[16:32]  You: Those are interesting hybrids in the Network Society today, Andromeda.

[16:32]  Andromeda Mesmer: That probably means younger professors at the unversities --

[16:32]  Andromeda Mesmer: May be more dynamic.

[16:33]  You: Yes, but many countries have world class universities already, and don't produce the degree of innovation - Japan, Germany, Sweden

[16:33]  You: that the U.S. produces.

[16:33]  Andromeda Mesmer: What are the latest figures and trends on patents? That might give an indication.

[16:33]  You: Will the U.S. be able to sustain that, and part of that innovation is due to foreign students coming here, studying, getting green cards, and starting companies

[16:34]  Boston Hutchinson: People arrive in China every day with specifications for things they want manufactured. This must be seen as a major opportunity by anyone with an inclination to go into business.

[16:34]  You: then going back to their home countries, and contuing to network with Silicon Valley and other R& D cetners.

[16:35]  You: UC Berkeley Professor AnnaLee Saxenian's "The New Argonauts" (Harvard 2007) is a good source for data, Andromeda.

[16:35]  Boston Hutchinson: I wonder if the patent system is effective. It seems to be making innovation very expensive and risky. Almost any product you might want to develop could infringe on many patents.

[16:36]  You: Yes, China has a remarkablly flexible and vast labor force - such that some talk about retail prices, wholesale prices, and the china price

[16:36]  You: which will be almost improssible to compete with on a worldwide basis.

[16:37]  Boston Hutchinson: The patent "business" seems to be divided into patent trolls, which don't make anything and big companies that collect large portfolios to negotiate with

[16:37]  You: But innovation will be rewarded, and brain circulation helps is essential - and U.S. universities are still among the most open and attractive in the world.

[16:38]  Luna Bliss is Offline

[16:38]  You: Yes, Boston, but if the inovation edge changes as rapidly as it has, that will help to stay ahead of patents, and then China's government will come more and more to enforce rule of law, if they want to engage world markets.

[16:38]  Boston Hutchinson: Yes, universities are a big player in the patent market, and a positive one, mostly

[16:38]  Andromeda Mesmer: I thought that because of Homeland Security regulations in the US, fewer foreign grad students are coming into the US universities. Am I correct?

[16:40]  You: For a while that was the case, I think - I don't know the data - but foreign students paying tuition is important, such that I think those limits have eased. So, to return to what emerged from

[16:40]  You: this milieu of innovation -

[16:41]  You: The last stage involved global networking - connecting to otehr places around the world - in a real time world wide communication network -

[16:41]  You: and this connecting

[16:42]  You: led to the same synergy with its generating capacity.

[16:42]  You: But this didn't happen the same way as it did in Silicon Valley.

[16:42]  You: Microelectronic companies originally started to produce chips in low cost companies, particularly in S.E. Asia.

[16:43]  You: The added value was really rooted in the ability to ADD KNOWLEDGE for profits.

[16:43]  You: Critical:

[16:43]  Jagger Valeeva is Online

[16:43]  You: The ability to connect around the world, to places such as Taiwan.

[16:44]  You: or Bangalore

[16:44]  You: How do these networks work?

[16:44]  You: They are organized generally through immigrant entrepreneurs.

[16:44]  You: Someone from India, China, or Taiwan comes

[16:45]  You: with an electrical engineering degree, stays, learns the trade, creates a company, and re-establishes contact with their own country.

[16:46]  You: Through personal connects, Silicon Valley came to establish a world wide network, but not to all places in the world.

[16:46]  You: So what emerges is a different kind of production system.

[16:46]  You: To SUMMARIZE

[16:47]  You: How the information Technology revolution ended up as a new paradigm of tehcnological and socioeconomic organization...

[16:47]  You: The paradigm

[16:47]  You: involves a cluster of inter-related innovations, technologies, and managerial innovations.

[16:48]  You: This cluster is able to generatie new products and processes towrad synergies and improving products.

[16:49]  You: In this paradigm - each element in this system needs each otehr to prgress in every field, working together.

[16:49]  You: PARADIGM

[16:49]  You: 1 this IT revolution is about information generation and processing

[16:50]  You: 2 it's pervasive, invades, and influences every domain of socioeconomic action

[16:50]  You: 3. it's characterized by networking, of companies, people, and mentalities

[16:51]  You: 4. it's main quailty is flexibility, where the system is such that it can reorganize and reprogram components without disintergration

[16:52]  Bruce Flyer is Online

[16:52]  You: and 5. technological convergence occurs in an intergrated system, which is opening, not closing, and which is only bound by technological development

[16:52]  You: So I'll post these notes

[16:53]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Bruce

[16:53]  You: Hello Bruce.

[16:53]  Bruce Flyer: hi everyone

[16:53]  Andromeda Mesmer: Hi Bruce

[16:53]  Claryssa Schmidt: hi Bruce

[16:53]  Brian Whiteberry is Offline

[16:53]  Bruce Flyer: :-)

[16:53]  You: here - http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

[16:54]  You: and let's take a little break, before returning to examine 1. the context of the braoder society and politics 2. on the level of the Internet.

[16:55]  You: Let's come back at about 8:05 - I'll post the notes now.

[16:55]  Bruce Flyer: any news from Rebecca?

[16:55]  Andromeda Mesmer: OK. I will relog, and get a small bite out of the fridge.

[16:56]  You: Not yet, although I've contacted her.

[16:56]  You: See you soon, A.

[16:56]  Claryssa Schmidt is Offline

[16:56]  Bruce Flyer: brb

 

 

 

 [17:05]  You: Greetings

[17:05]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi

[17:06]  You: The first half of tonight's notes are posted here - http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com/Jan%2023%202008%20Soc%20and%20Info%20Tech%20class%20transcript

[17:07]  You: So the medium was invented.

[17:07]  Teresa Cinquetti is Offline

[17:08]  You: So - the link between the information revolution and transformations

[17:08]  You: Information technology is important beause a new kind of society has already emerged.

[17:09]  You: What was the social context in which the IT revolution helpted to transform 1970s society in a anew society?

[17:09]  You: 1. the development of information technology

[17:09]  You: 2. the process of socioeconomic restructuring of capitalism, which we'll only look at briefly

[17:10]  You: And 3. changes in values of society, as a result of social movements and aternative cultures.

[17:10]  You: ... that is the mess of the 1960s and 70s - i.e. cultural change.

[17:10]  You: And what emerges in our society - the Network Society

[17:11]  You: And what's interesting is the interaction.

[17:11]  You: By these 3 elements coming together, by bumping up against one another, new forms of social organization emerge

[17:11]  Annette Paster is Online

[17:12]  You: What is the process of socioeconomic restructuring that occurred?

[17:12]  You: It involved changing the rules of the game without changing the gamer.

[17:12]  jek Criss is Online

[17:12]  You: Systems are organized around means and goals.

[17:13]  You: When the systems goes into crisi, some people want to change the goals, and this is called revolution.

[17:13]  Perry Proudhon is Online

[17:13]  You: And when the system goes into crisis and you don't want to change the goals, you change the means.

[17:14]  You: And there was a substantial crisis in the 1970s, characterized by huge inflation.

[17:14]  You: at one point, the system couldn't operate, inflation was too high, and companies, couldn't calculate costs. Prices were high, too.

[17:15]  You: So in the 1970s, strategits and policies from copanies and the government developed to set goals in order.

[17:15]  You: And it worked, within these new goals.

[17:16]  You: And, in parallel, the socialist system, "the statist" one - with the state at the center - tried restructuring and it decomposed. - e.g. Russia, and China changed to socialism under capitalism.

 

[17:19]  Claryssa Schmidt is Online

[17:19]  Bruce Flyer is Online

[17:19]  Veeyawn Spoonhammer is Online

[17:19]  Eshi Otawara is Online

[17:21]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

[17:21]  Connected

[17:22]  You: Hi Rain

[17:22]  You: HI Claryssa

[17:22]  Claryssa Schmidt: hi Aphilo

[17:22]  Rain Ninetails: hi. welcome back :)

[17:22]  You: I as logged out without explanation - were you?

[17:22]  You: :)

[17:22]  You: Hi Boston!

[17:22]  Rain Ninetails: sim going down it said to me.

[17:22]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi all.

[17:22]  You: I see

[17:23]  You: Sim went down.

[17:23]  Boston Hutchinson: Sim said it was going down, but appears to be back now.

[17:23]  Rain Ninetails: no warning, though.

[17:23]  You: Yes

[17:23]  You: Sorry about that. . . let's wait a little to see if Andromeda and Bruce return.

[17:24]  You: I'll post the class transcript after the break, which I was able to save, after all.

[17:24]  Boston Hutchinson: It sent me to an orientaion or information island instead of here.

[17:24]  You: And me to another island . . . too

[17:24]  Boston Hutchinson: Had to teleport back

[17:25]  Claryssa Schmidt: hi Andromeda

[17:26]  Boston Hutchinson: Welcome back, A

[17:26]  You: Hi Andromeda!

[17:26]  You: Weather in SL :)

[17:26]  Andromeda Mesmer: Some trouble to get here - I finally did it via Berkman Sandbox.

[17:26]  You: Here's the transcript from after the break - http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com/Jan-23-2008-Soc-and-Info-Tech-class-transcript

[17:27]  Andromeda Mesmer: Thanks.

[17:27]  You: So, let's move on, and perhaps Bruce will return.

[17:27]  You: So, in this system, if there's no money making, there's no hiring.

[17:27]  You: How do you make money out of business? - Briefly

[17:28]  You: 1. by increasing productivity - how much output you generate, per unity of input

[17:28]  You: 2. through more efficient management

[17:28]  You: 3. Through lowering costs

[17:28]  You: And 4. through expanding markets.

[17:29]  You: What happend in the mid 1970s, in the Us and in the world, was that ompanies and governments proceeded in such a way that altogether production was increased, costs lowered, and markets expanded.

[17:30]  You: And they did this through 4 mechanisms.

[17:30]  You: 1. much better information technology

[17:30]  You: 2. flexilibity in magement, work and distribution systems, and in capital markets.

[17:31]  You: 3. through more efficient management - indicating a change in the power relationships between managemetn and labor.

[17:31]  You: Hello Kenneth.

[17:31]  Kennethh Yamdev: Hello

[17:31]  You: Welcome - this is a class in society and informaiton technology - about the development of the network society and the IT revolution.

[17:31]  You: http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

[17:32]  You: So in the 1970s, there was a dramatic decline in unionization

[17:32]  Brian Whiteberry is Online

[17:32]  You: and 4. the media was very significant in characterizing GLOBALIZATION

[17:32]  You: its myth, ideology, politics and historical processes of hte last 70 years.

[17:33]  You: And globalization meant that money could circultate in global markets around world.

[17:33]  You: So now it was possible to sell everywhere.

[17:33]  You: And Markets expanded dramatically.

[17:34]  You: And costs of production were lowered relative to price.

[17:34]  You: There was an ongoing search by companies for the most favorable conditions.

[17:34]  You: And information technology was critical for this

[17:34]  You: through

[17:34]  You: 1 networking

[17:34]  You: and 2. globalization

[17:34]  You: And these conditions wouldn't exist without these.

[17:35]  You: The need for fast computing and telecommunications

[17:35]  You: allowed for connection from all points to all points

[17:36]  You: and without advanced information systems, you couldn't have the dense network of AIR transport for example, on which the global economy is based.

[17:36]  You: CULTURAL CHANGE

[17:36]  You: New ideas emerged in the 70s - new forms of civil life

[17:37]  You: Many of the things taken for granted from the 1960s and 70s through today would have caused tremendous problems in the decades before this

[17:37]  You: And this started with the free speech movement in Berkeley in 1964

[17:37]  You: and the student revolts in Paris in 1968 - May 1968

[17:38]  You: And these protests happened everywhere

[17:38]  You: - in all Western capitals!

[17:38]  You: What happened?

[17:38]  You: There were diverse protests.

[17:38]  You: What was at stake was the freedom of the person vis a vis the system

[17:38]  You: It was sometimes selfish

[17:39]  You: And many expressed the view that nobody is going to give me orders.

[17:39]  You: This time blew up an entire system of authority, on which all societies were based.

[17:39]  Eshi Otawara is Offline

[17:40]  You: And a number of ideas emerged that changed the way society thinks.

[17:40]  You: And something deeper occurred, too.

[17:40]  You: The people affected by these changes moved into institutions.

[17:40]  You: And these changes signficantly affected voters.

[17:40]  You: How fundamental was this change?

[17:41]  You: 1. Women as equal became the standard, legally, etc.

[17:41]  You: 2. Environmentally, respecting teh balance of nature became significant

[17:41]  You: - people came to think about the use of cars

[17:41]  You: - "pollution is the problem" idea emerged

[17:41]  You: And people came to think about the ozone layer

[17:42]  You: these were unthinkable societally prior to this.

[17:42]  You: 3. individual freedom was central -

[17:42]  You: where "I want to develop my own thing"

[17:43]  You: developed into liberatarian qualities, which were now denatured

[17:44]  You: For example, the PERSONAL COMPUTER IDEA came from the cultrual idea that said "I want something for me" which led to individual software.

[17:44]  You: Individual knowledge came from a culture which valued individualism as a supreme value.

[17:44]  You: And this happend in 3-4 years - from 1968 - 1972.

[17:44]  Andromeda Mesmer: Also -- teenagers discovered computer games --

[17:45]  You: So, these three factors interacted and resulted in the Network Society.

[17:45]  You: Yes, that is very significant, but was as ubiquitous in the 1970s as it is now, Andromeda.

[17:45]  You: So the social outcome

[17:46]  You: - An analysis of the history and culture and uses of the technologies that symbolizes this transition = INTERNET

[17:46]  You: So the Internet makes the transition between this revolution and now.

[17:46]  You: SOCIAL HISTORY OF THE INTERNET

[17:47]  You: (see also Janet Abbate's "Inventing the Internet" (1999)

[17:47]  You: The INTERNET

[17:48]  You: is a global network of computer networks that have the ability to talk to each otehr and re-route messages through alternative paths when a path is blocked.

[17:48]  You: And there are an infinite number of alternate paths.

[17:48]  You: (Not all computer networks are in the internet - e.g. glboal financial markets.)

[17:48]  You: The internet has a long and fascinating history.

[17:49]  You: It was first formed in 1969.

[17:49]  You: And it became widely popular, where people starting to surf and enjoy it, in 1994-95, a significant amount of time after its inception

[17:50]  You: So, before we proceed, let's perhaps talk together in more detail about some of these developments, in the last 10 minutes of this class.

[17:51]  You: and, also, I'd like to find out whether any of you would like to make presentations

[17:52]  You: that related to your own interests, and which may tie into themes in theis class.

[17:52]  You: Some of you have expressed interest in this.

[17:53]  You: Would any of you like to present about ideas that find fascinating?

[17:54]  You: Andromeda and Boston - you've both expressed interest at one point.

[17:54]  Andromeda Mesmer: Yes -- for a short talk right now.

[17:54]  You: Claryssa or Rain?

[17:54]  Andromeda Mesmer: I mean -- at the moment --

[17:54]  You: Great, A.

[17:54]  Andromeda Mesmer: I also have an important petition to give out to people -- about the doubling of the number of groups. The signatures are now being colleced online -- apparently very very popular idea.

[17:55]  You: Thanks - would you like to talk right now about what interests you - or next week, when we have a little more time?

[17:56]  You: As we draw to a close, there were a number of centers which produced a remarkable number of innovations.

[17:56]  Andromeda Mesmer gave you NEW! -Petition to double the group limits -- SIGN ONLINE.

[17:57]  You: One was Xerox PARC

[17:57]  You: Thanks, Andromeda- signing on a web page is sensible.

[17:58]  Veeyawn Spoonhammer is Offline

[17:58]  You: And in the 1970s, Xerox Parc - known for inventing laser printing, Ethernet, the modern personal computer graphical user interface (GUI) paradigm, object-oriented programming, ubiquitous computing, and advancing very-large-scale-integration (VLSI)

[17:58]  You: all in a very short amount of time.

[17:59]  You: So, next week, let's look at how the Internet developed.

[17:59]  You: So, next week, let's look at how the Internet developed.

[17:59]  You: Are there questions? or thoughts you'd like to share?

[18:00]  SamBivalent Spork is Online

[18:00]  Boston Hutchinson: I'd be interested in talking about the use of distributed processing to run virtual worlds more efficiently and more flexibly.

[18:01]  Andromeda Mesmer: Not really -- just some of my wondering, how long will it be before cell phones are given away in cereal boxes, like plastic toys?

[18:01]  You: Great, Boston

[18:01]  You: Good question, Andromeda

[18:01]  Andromeda Mesmer: I do think that virtual worlds are going to get bigger and more imporant.

[18:02]  You: I just drove across the country, and I didn't see very much IT on the road, which I found interesting.

[18:02]  Andromeda Mesmer: It is possible that some of the old technology -- like cell phones - will be approaching the saturation point -- everybody will have one.,

[18:02]  Boston Hutchinson: I think virtual worlds may replace Facebook and MySpace

[18:02]  You: I'm now in Nevada City, CA, and there are some laptops where I am, but Info Tech could be much more widely spread.

[18:02]  Andromeda Mesmer: Aphilo -- that is an interesting observaion indeed -- pockes of the US that are cut off from the coasts and the big cities -- what is contemptuously referred to as "Flyover Country".

[18:02]  Boston Hutchinson: and cell phones may evolve into virtual reality portals

[18:03]  Veeyawn Spoonhammer is Online

[18:03]  You: I think you're right, Boston, and kids will make this happen, and grow and shape these developments through the next few decades.

[18:03]  You: Media will change profoundly in the years ahead.

[18:03]  Andromeda Mesmer: Charlie Stross thinks there are possiblities for combined eyeglasses and computer screens built in.

[18:04]  Boston Hutchinson: Yes, Andromeda, there have been "heads-up" displays since at least the mid 80s

[18:04]  You: That would be fascinating and sensible - I think ease of access to information is key - which is one reason why TV has been so successful.

[18:04]  Boston Hutchinson: and the eyeglasses displays are an extension of this technology, I think.

[18:05]  You: Are any worn today regularly? I remember a MIT student - was his name Thaddeus? - who wore such a device in the 80s, I think.

[18:05]  Boston Hutchinson: I noticed that Stross had a disposable cell phone in the first scene of Accelerando. :)

[18:06]  Boston Hutchinson: I think there are some commercially available and inexpensive now

[18:06]  Andromeda Mesmer: Prof. John Mann of the U of Toronto Electrical Eng. Dept wears a helmet with built in computer, and has been doing so for well over a decade. Sends pictures to his wife, and they communicate back and forth ...

[18:06]  Boston Hutchinson: Saw one that connected to a video iPod

[18:06]  You: Would you like to synthesize some of Stross's most fascinating ideas for a 20 minute presentation next week, Andromeda?

[18:06]  Boston Hutchinson: Cool

[18:06]  You: Very

[18:07]  Andromeda Mesmer: Gulp! OK :D

[18:07]  Boston Hutchinson: That would be interesting!

[18:07]  You: Great . . . no presssure . . .

[18:07]  You: That would!

[18:07]  SamBivalent Spork is Offline

[18:08]  You: And would you like to talk about distributive processing and virtual worlds the following week, Boston?

[18:08]  Boston Hutchinson: Sure.

[18:08]  Andromeda Mesmer: I have an greenhouse project -- under ground on the moon -- that I am working on -- and have to help set up a new model at Vindi's store.

[18:08]  Boston Hutchinson: I better check my calendar!

[18:08]  You: Thanks. . . that would be very interesting, and timely. Perhaps we might all go into Croquet then after class, or the following week toward the end of class.

[18:09]  You: OK, Andromeda - does that mean you can't present next week?

[18:09]  You: Or would you like to show it to us - a field trip?

[18:09]  Andromeda Mesmer: Hmm. Better give me 2 weeks, just in case of unforseen circumstances.

[18:09]  You: Sounds good.

[18:10]  Andromeda Mesmer: I will be delighted to show my greenhouse when it is half finished -- but it is not half-finished yet.

[18:10]  You: Rain or Claryssa, would you like to present about anything?

[18:10]  Boston Hutchinson: Unfortunately, I don't know how to get into Croquet as a class yet. It might be possible to log in, but we might have trouble having a conversation, or even recognizing each other!

[18:10]  You: Thanks!

[18:10]  Boston Hutchinson: The greenhouse would be interesting!

[18:10]  You: Yes. . . but people might download croquet - what's the url for getting the program - just to begin to get oriented.

[18:11]  Andromeda Mesmer: I have a silver dragon look -- we could all go as large black or silver dragons ---

[18:11]  You: Yes, I'd love to check in with you there, mid-week, too, A.

[18:11]  You: :)

[18:11]  Andromeda Mesmer: Is it possible to download it with a Macintosh?

[18:11]  Arawn Spitteler is Offline

[18:11]  You: Yes.

[18:11]  Boston Hutchinson: Yes, Mac, PC, Linux

[18:12]  Boston Hutchinson: http://www.opencroquet.org/index.php/Main_Page

18:12]  You: Thanks

[18:12]  Diego Ibanez is Online

[18:12]  Boston Hutchinson: I think we'll all be white rabbits in Croquet

[18:13]  You: So, Boston, would you be able to talk about Croquet next week?

[18:13]  You: :)

[18:13]  You: or distibuted processing and vw?

[18:13]  Andromeda Mesmer: White rabbit is fine. Can I wear one of Vindi's top hats from SL?

[18:13]  Boston Hutchinson: Yes, next week is OK, or the week after.

[18:14]  You: Great, Boston, could you do so next week, and Andromeda the week after?

[18:14]  Boston Hutchinson: But I'm afraid Croquet is more of an idea and a project, than a world we can visit, so far.

[18:14]  You: That will be very interesting, on its own.

[18:15]  Andromeda Mesmer: Is it like SL was, in the early days? Very unrealistic looking?

[18:15]  Boston Hutchinson: It should be an interesting discussion, and it is possible to see some of the Croquet worlds without actually meeting in them.

[18:15]  You: Hello folks - we're just finishing up a class here.

[18:15]  You: Thanks, Boston.

[18:15]  Liam Gunes: i'm very sorry about busing in

[18:15]  You: np

[18:15]  Liam Gunes: busting

[18:16]  Boston Hutchinson: The problem is more that the networking isn't well developed. It looks fairly real.

[18:16]  Andromeda Mesmer: What parts of the networking?

[18:16]  You: Yes, it does . . . but I'm interested in learning what will improve it.

[18:16]  Boston Hutchinson: But I haven't been able to host a world.

[18:16]  Andromeda Mesmer: There is also the Chinese Hipihi site --

[18:16]  You: Perhaps the software is being updated as we talk.

[18:17]  Andromeda Mesmer: A Chinese version of SL -- but I notice that lots of Chinese come into SL -- mainland, HK, Taiwan, and other surrounding counries with Chinese immigrants.

[18:17]  Boston Hutchinson: The connections depend on IP addresses and port numbers and getting through firewalls in ways that haven't been worked out for the Internet. It works inside LANs and at Universities, apparently.

[18:17]  You: I see. Yes.

[18:18]  You: Perhaps we can finish for this evening, and next week at around 8:30 ET, hear more about VW from you Boston?

[18:19]  Boston Hutchinson: OK

[18:19]  You: Nice to see you. I'll post the rest of the transcript now.

[18:19]  You: See you next week!

[18:19]  You: Good night!

[18:19]  Boston Hutchinson: Thanks for class!

[18:19]  Andromeda Mesmer: Goodnight, Aphilo

[18:19]  Rain Ninetails: :)

[18:20]  You: See you next week :)

[18:20]  Boston Hutchinson: Have to get back to RL. See you all next week!

[18:20]  You: Good night.

[18:20]  Boston Hutchinson is Offline

[18:21]  Andromeda Mesmer: How have you been, Rain?

[18:21]  Rain Ninetails: bye!