Society and Information Technology in Second Life

Wednesdays, January 9 - July 30, 2008, 4-6, SLT/PT, 7-9 pm ET

on Berkman island in Second Life - http://slurl.com/secondlife/Berkman/114/70/25

Course homepage - http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

 

Instructor: Scott MacLeod (not on Harvard's faculty) = Aphilo Aarde (in Second Life)

http://scottmacleod.com/papers.htm

 

 

April 16 2008 Soc and Info Tech class transcript

 

[15:59]  You: Hi Rain!

 

[15:59]  You: Hi Ozzy

 

[15:59]  Rain Ninetails: hi! :)

 

[16:00]  Boston Hutchinson is Online

 

[16:00]  You: Have any of you seen

 

[16:00]  Connecting to in-world Voice Chat...

 

[16:00]  Connected

 

[16:01]  You: "The Future of the Interne," a series of talks by a Stanford professor Ramesh Johari?

 

[16:01]  You: I've posted the first of 5 to the wiki - http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

 

[16:01]  You: Hello Jayne, Boston!

 

[16:01]  Jayne Urqhart: hi there :)

 

[16:01]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi everybody.

 

[16:01]  Boston Hutchinson: Sorry I'm late!

 

[16:02]  You: You're right on time

 

[16:02]  Rain Ninetails: hee hee

 

[16:02]  Claryssa Schmidt is Online

 

[16:03]  You: videos by Ramesh Johari interesting

 

[16:03]  You: I think you'll find the series of

 

[16:03]  01 Hifeng is Online

 

[16:03]  You: I think you'l find the series of videos by Ramesh Johari interesting.

 

[16:04]  Claryssa Schmidt: hi

 

[16:04]  You: Hi Claryssa

 

[16:04]  Boston Hutchinson: Hi Claryssa

 

[16:04]  You: Besides the talks by Ramesh Johari, you might also find the book

 

[16:04]  You: by Jonathan Zittrain on ""The Future of the Internet" interesting.

 

[16:05]  You: He suggests that the future of the INternet

 

[16:05]  You: to avoid being locked down

 

[16:06]  You: involves millions of users continuing to innovate by making generative

 

[16:06]  You: technologies

 

[16:06]  You: So last week, we were examining some challenges from

 

[16:07]  You: fundamentalism, andways in which identities continue to shape a

 

[16:07]  Gwyneth Llewelyn is Offline

 

[16:07]  You: series of orientations to the Internet

 

[16:08]  You: And with the web, there are also very distinct regional and national appraoches to it.

 

[16:08]  You: Having emerged in signficant ways in teh U.S.

 

[16:09]  You: It remains remarakbly open

 

[16:09]  You: but even in th U.S.

 

[16:09]  You: concernsfor proprietary interests in information

 

[16:10]  You: will threatenthe Internets opennes

 

[16:10]  You: aand in other countries without the legacy of freedom of speech, the internet is much less open

 

[16:11]  You: raise some concerns for the future of the Internet

 

[16:11]  You: This vening, I'd like to recap some significant points from the course, and

 

[16:11]  You: The fundamental thing is

 

[16:11]  You: that information technology is extremely important

 

[16:11]  You: but its future is undetermined

 

[16:12]  You: in terms of the uses of the Internet for freedom, vis-aivs surveillance and police, for example

 

[16:12]  You: in society

 

[16:13]  You: The Internet amplies, deepens, and enhances wahtever we do in

 

[16:13]  You: (I'm experiencing lag)

 

[16:13]  You: And if we are skillful, the Internet will be very good ahead

 

[16:13]  You: It concentrates everything

 

[16:13]  Sonja Strom is Online

 

[16:14]  You: and it's at teh heart of communication

 

[16:14]  You: Talke the technology and use it

 

[16:14]  You: In a way the Internet lies between

 

[16:14]  You: the capital laws of exploitation

 

[16:14]  You: and freedoms and rights

 

[16:14]  You: We are in between

 

[16:15]  You: What are the implications for society - power and ambiguity

 

[16:15]  Gwyneth Llewelyn is Online

 

[16:15]  You: There are a number of challenges ahead that I shall lay out

 

[16:16]  You: The Internet

 

[16:16]  You: The 1st challenge is in terms of freedom itself

 

[16:16]  You: provides global and free communication

 

[16:17]  You: that potentially reaches everyone

 

[16:17]  You: But access can be overrode, controlled, biased and manipulated

 

[16:17]  You: by ideological and politcal interests

 

[16:17]  You: The challenge is for PEOPLE to accept the challenge to own it

 

[16:18]  You: I'm agree with Manuel Castells in not trusting society or anyone with

 

[16:18]  You: the future of the Internet

 

[16:18]  You: We have created a communication tool

 

[16:18]  Veeyawn Spoonhammer is Online

 

[16:18]  You: And this can be privately created, and controlled by government

 

[16:19]  You: Vis-a-vis the Internet, to imagine

 

[16:19]  You: that you might not go to teh beach, the forest, etc. wthout asking for permission

 

[16:20]  You: is a mentality I'd like to avoid in relation to the Internet

 

[16:20]  You: That could happen here, as the Internet becomes appropriated by business

 

[16:20]  You: . . . here in the U.S.

 

[16:21]  You: In Europe , government has regulated business on the Internet

 

[16:21]  You: which is a nice solution, as long as you can trust government

 

[16:21]  You: It's not business vs. government in Europe.

 

[16:22]  You: Just imagine you live in a nice democratic country

 

[16:22]  You: like Austria

 

[16:22]  You: what happens to the Internet, in this case?

 

[16:22]  You: and you have a conservation government vs an ultra right government

 

[16:23]  You: So the future of the Intenret is not about China, but it may be about Austria

 

[16:23]  You: (Please ask, if you have any questions or observations)

 

[16:24]  Gareth Otsuka is Offline

 

[16:24]  You: The beatufy of the type chat in SL is that everybody can contribute to this class as they want

 

[16:24]  You: (I will post this transcript to the class wiki -http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com

 

[16:24]  Carabella Babii: Question

 

[16:24]  You: So in the U.S. the first amendment does apply to the Internet, but it is new

 

[16:25]  Dnate Mars is Offline

 

[16:25]  You: issues are unfolding

 

[16:25]  You: and questions of privitization

 

[16:25]  You: Yes, Carabella?

 

[16:25]  You: published by Yale

 

[16:26]  You: Jonathan Zittrain is quite pessimistic in his "The Future of the Internet"

 

[16:26]  You: He fears a lock down, as commercial interests on the Web grow

 

[16:26]  You: So the first challenges is "Who controls the Internet?"

 

[16:26]  Carabella Babii: I understand that regulation will ensure protection to business but how does it protect the private citizen? or am I incorrect in that observation or understanding

 

[16:26]  You: meaning access.

 

[16:27]  You: The first amendment protects teh citizen

 

[16:27]  You: so anyone can post anything very easily in the U.S., and potentially around the world

 

[16:28]  You: and the Internet has low barriers to access . . .

 

[16:28]  You: once one has a computer

 

[16:28]  You: (We'll look at the Digital Divide next week.

 

[16:28]  You: In terms of who controls the Internet

 

[16:29]  You: a key question is "under which controls can one participate?

 

[16:29]  You: It dependsupon the controlling processes - by business, political ideologies, etc.

 

[16:29]  You: The 2nd challenge is

 

[16:29]  You: "Does everybody have access?"

 

[16:30]  You: Exclusion from networks of information technology are an ongoing problem

 

[16:30]  You: And more particuarly a challenge

 

[16:30]  You: And we will look at teh Digital Divide next week.

 

[16:31]  You: There are different forms of exlusion

 

[16:31]  You: 1infrastructure

 

[16:31]  You: 2 economic

 

[16:31]  You: 3 bureaucratic

 

[16:31]  You: 3 cultural / educational

 

[16:32]  You: 5 the inability to influence content in networks

 

[16:32]  You: The THIRD major challenge

 

[16:32]  You: is societal

 

[16:32]  You: In a society where information processing is essential

 

[16:32]  You: it becomes important

 

[16:33]  Carabella Babii: Question:

 

[16:33]  You: to learn information processing skills

 

[16:33]  You: for all of us to learn these

 

[16:33]  You: Certain kinds of education

 

[16:33]  You: can be digitally stored

 

[16:34]  You: And about 95% of kids have access to computers in the U.S

 

[16:34]  You: How you become able to use and apply

 

[16:34]  You: this information

 

[16:34]  You: requries not only good education

 

[16:34]  You: But an education where people can think for and by themselves

 

[16:35]  You: where people can think critically

 

[16:35]  You: And this involves

 

[16:35]  You: constant reprogramming

 

[16:36]  You: in a world in which everything is

 

[16:36]  You: cahnging

 

[16:36]  You: that is in a relative world

 

[16:36]  You: that is flexile

 

[16:36]  You: So this requries a kind of personality

 

[16:37]  You: flexible and secure

 

[16:37]  You: that can adapt, but not breakdown

 

[16:37]  Gwyneth Llewelyn is Offline

 

[16:37]  You: So we need certain types of schools and teachers, and pedagogy

 

[16:37]  You: which we don't have

 

[16:37]  You: the issue is not computers which are flexible

 

[16:38]  You: We have an extraordinary potential to shape a world based on ATHENIAN DEMOCRACY

 

[16:39]  You: Athenian democracy involves a highly educated group

 

[16:39]  You: of citizens with enough material

 

[16:39]  You: well-being and with education, self-reflection, and a sophisticated society

 

[16:40]  You: (But in Athenian Society around 2400 years ago, the majority were barbaric or slaves)

 

[16:40]  You: you're not o.k.

 

[16:40]  You: This is not to say that if you are not in the Internet

 

[16:40]  Carabella Babii: but who would determine this and will this only be reflected in the US as dominant

 

[16:40]  Gwyneth Llewelyn is Online

 

[16:40]  You: But we are moving to a situation where a small minority are a highly educated elite

 

[16:41]  You: are so important.

 

[16:41]  You: Yes, Carabella - which is why efforts like the one laptop per child - the XO - MIT Negorponte's $100 dollar laptop

 

[16:42]  You: And why organziations like the Berkman Center for Internet and Society

 

[16:42]  You: which is helping to shape these socail processes, both legally and societally

 

[16:42]  Carabella Babii: but how does that help a child when the parent is illerate in computers

 

[16:42]  You: by emphasizing things like open source, and innovation are essential

 

[16:43]  You: As I menitoned above teaching and pedagogy are as important

 

[16:44]  You: The folwing is a fascinating video that debunks Third World myths

 

[16:44]  You: by a Swedish professor Hans Rosling

 

[16:44]  You: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/92

 

[16:44]  You: using statistics that are exciting to observe

 

[16:44]  You: And here is information about One Laptop Per Child

 

[16:45]  You: Which uses only free software

 

[16:45]  You: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Laptop_per_Child

 

[16:45]  Diego Ibanez is Online

 

[16:45]  You: and is designed specifically for child ownership in the developing world

 

[16:45]  Carabella Babii: hmm interesting, thank you

 

[16:45]  You: But the digital divide is very signficant

 

[16:46]  You: very

 

[16:46]  You: So, education is highly erratic

 

[16:46]  You: There's little education i the ghettoes

 

[16:46]  You: How to get more sophisticated teachers there is a key question.

 

[16:47]  You: You have to pay

 

[16:47]  You: And recognize socially

 

[16:47]  You: the value of teachers

 

[16:47]  You: is immense

 

[16:48]  You: The gap between the kind of education needed to make society work and what is really happening

 

[16:48]  You: The 4th CHALLENGE

 

[16:48]  You: The emergence of a networking

 

[16:48]  You: business model

 

[16:48]  You: and the individualization of work and employment

 

[16:48]  You: which undermines what used to guide industrail relations

 

[16:49]  You: i.e. the welfare state

 

[16:49]  You: ie.collective bargaining agreements

 

[16:49]  Diego Ibanez is Offline

 

[16:49]  You: i.e. workers' rights

 

[16:49]  You: All these institutions are being undermined by indiviudalization

 

[16:49]  You: There's a growing percentage of people with no permanent contract

 

[16:49]  You: They aren't guaranteed employment

 

[16:49]  Cindy Ecksol is Online

 

[16:50]  You: and a new form emerges - flexible employment

 

[16:50]  You: If you look at many contracts

 

[16:50]  You: look at the fine print

 

[16:50]  You: "In case of a dispute between labor and mangement, you commit to arbitration"

 

[16:51]  You: and this elminates enforced workers' rights

 

[16:51]  You: empyment becomes a private matter and not a public one

 

[16:51]  You: Once you accpet with your signature that you're not under laws protecting you, you a

 

[16:51]  You: you are privatizing - and you have no more rights

 

[16:51]  Cindy Ecksol is Offline

 

[16:52]  You: The model for the network enterprise challenges these rights

 

[16:52]  You: The model for the network enterpreise

 

[16:53]  Cindy Ecksol is Online

 

[16:53]  You: but it does include all the advantages

 

[16:53]  You: productivity

 

[16:53]  You: competetiveness

 

[16:53]  You: personal choice

 

[16:53]  You: dynamism

 

[16:53]  You: and creativity

 

[16:53]  You: The 5th challenge

 

[16:54]  You: has to do with regulated markets and the global economy

 

[16:54]  You: all of which have rules

 

[16:54]  You: and all of which are covered by the authority of democractic states

 

[16:54]  You: When this breaks down - i.e. in Russia -

 

[16:54]  You: there aren't any rules, and what you have left are thugs.

 

[16:55]  You: So the market s are not the contrary

 

[16:55]  You: And the market needs rules and institutions

 

[16:55]  You: Capital grows because there are rules

 

[16:55]  You: The notion of the wild East

 

[16:56]  You: which includes violence and appropriation

 

[16:56]  You: is an interesting coutnerexample

 

[16:56]  You: Capitalism may be harsh

 

[16:56]  You: but it is not a system of theft.

 

[16:56]  You: What happened with capitalism

 

[16:57]  You: was that a system of market rules was created at a national level

 

[16:57]  You: Now the economy and markets are global, and institutions are national

 

[16:57]  You: So global financial markets are in essence possible to regulate

 

[16:58]  Daisyblue Hefferman is Offline

 

[16:58]  You: Political and economic measures are possible

 

[16:58]  You: We don't always know if they'll work

 

[16:58]  You: But we haven't tried.

 

[16:58]  Dnate Mars is Online

 

[16:58]  You: And we'll continue to try very little for a while

 

[16:59]  You: Brazil in the years around the millenium change wanted regulation!

 

[16:59]  You: So these challenges explain contradictions

 

[16:59]  You: and it's a time of creativity

 

[16:59]  You: and wealth creation

 

[17:00]  You: And as this continues, most, regardless of economic prosperity,

 

[17:00]  You: are SCARED due to rapid change

 

[17:01]  Daisyblue Hefferman is Online

 

[17:01]  You: They are scared of change, but also scared by the lack of ability to have any tool, or mecahism to influence change.

 

[17:01]  You: So let's take a 10 minute break soon

 

[17:01]  You: I more thatn welcome questions and observations

 

[17:02]  You: See you at 12 past the hour

 

[17:02]  You: wehn we return

 

[17:02]  You: :)

 

[17:05]  Michele Mrigesh is Offline

 

[17:07]  Veeyawn Spoonhammer is Offline

 

[17:11]  You: Observations?

 

[17:11]  You: Are there questions?

 

[17:12]  You: I've posted the transcript thus far, here - http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com/April-16-2008-Soc-and-Info-Tech-class-transcript

 

[17:12]  You: Boston?

 

[17:12]  You: Jayne?

 

[17:12]  You: Claryssa?

 

[17:12]  You: Knildrig?

 

[17:12]  You: Others?

 

[17:12]  You: Rain?

 

[17:12]  Knildrig Aabye: yes

 

[17:12]  Rain Ninetails: :)

 

[17:12]  Boston Hutchinson: I wonder what effect virtual worlds are having on labor

 

[17:13]  You: Yes Knildirg?

 

[17:13]  You: Good question . . .

 

[17:13]  You: I think VWs are still very new

 

[17:13]  Knildrig Aabye: what do you think of twitter ?

 

[17:13]  You: and their impact

 

[17:14]  You: and most high tech firms are not unionized - Linden Lab which makes Second Life only has about 250 employees

 

[17:14]  Knildrig Aabye: .

 

[17:15]  You: And World of War Craft is probably similar.

 

[17:15]  You: So inworld labor is probably even smaller

 

[17:16]  Sonja Strom is Offline

 

[17:16]  You: Twitter is another fascinating exmaple of a social networking tool . . .

 

[17:16]  You: and an example of ongoing innovation

 

[17:16]  Knildrig Aabye: i love twitter

 

[17:16]  Boston Hutchinson: The economy inside SL and WoW is small now, but could become a significant part of the total economy, especially if RL services are rendered in SL, which should be possible for jobs like programming, website development, even some medical and legal...

 

[17:16]  You: And it's convergences that emerge from such technological innovation that can

 

[17:17]  You: lead to remarkable new developments

 

[17:17]  You: Knildrig

 

[17:17]  You: I thinkit's very cool, too.

 

[17:17]  You: Yes, Boston, and while

 

[17:18]  You: high tech jobs tend to pay very well.

 

[17:18]  You: labor has played a very small role in the IT reovlution, due to individualization in society

 

[17:18]  Knildrig Aabye: jason calacanis is twittering and u-streaming live making price draws to increase followers, i was amazed watching him

 

[17:18]  You: And I agree that virtual worlds

 

[17:18]  You: are fascinating and potentially explosive

 

[17:19]  Knildrig Aabye: i like 1938media too :)

 

[17:19]  You: because you will be able to do almost everyhing in world that you do in real life

 

[17:19]  You: cool, knildrig

 

[17:19]  You: when avatars start to become like us,

 

[17:19]  You: when avatars become agents on their own

 

[17:19]  You: when vws come to be exactly like real life

 

[17:20]  You: when what we do in virtual worlds happens in real life and vice versa

 

[17:20]  You: the world will be very different,

 

[17:20]  You: and while many of these ideas are

 

[17:21]  You: science fiction now, they all seem possible - but how soon - maybe very soon.

 

[17:21]  You: Look at Second LIfe - the seeds for such are already here

 

[17:21]  You: it's just convergences ahead, don't you think?

 

[17:22]  You: "it's just a matter of ..."

 

[17:23]  You: So, to return to what we've been talking about, most institutions are in deep crisis

 

[17:23]  You: Robert Putnam at Harvard, talks about the practical emptiness of most labor unions.

 

[17:23]  You: And governments havne't responded to people's problems

 

[17:23]  You: Manuel Castells thinks

 

[17:24]  You: ... so objectively,

 

[17:24]  You: But people also think so

 

[17:24]  You: And under such conditions, people are facing some insecurity

 

[17:25]  You: of different kinds

 

[17:25]  You: 1)

 

[17:25]  You: ENVIRONMENTAL DEGRADATION

 

[17:26]  You: a). through the ability of netowrks to scan the planet relentlessly to exploit resources in order to sell

 

[17:26]  You: b) this accelerates economic growth and depletes resources

 

[17:26]  You: We're not in a time of sustainable development

 

[17:27]  You: where 50% are included as beneficiaries of this growth

 

[17:27]  You: but 50% aren't

 

[17:27]  You: It isn't possible to live as welive in hte U.S. globally.

 

[17:27]  You: If you multiply the number of people today

 

[17:28]  You: by the same levels of pollution looking ahead

 

[17:28]  You: you destroy people but not the planet

 

[17:28]  You: It doesn't mean we have to reduce our standard of living

 

[17:28]  You: In order to include everybody in an advanced form of production and consumption

 

[17:29]  You: we have to change, not grow

 

[17:29]  You: We need 0% growth

 

[17:30]  You: In the increasing consumption equation, with the current population growth projections, it's unsustainable

 

[17:30]  You: And missle defense cannot control pollution in China

 

[17:30]  You: There is another side of

 

[17:30]  You: information technology

 

[17:31]  You: that can lead to sustainable development

 

[17:31]  You: We can now know due to information technology

 

[17:31]  You: what is and isn't sustainable

 

[17:31]  You: We can now define which kind of

 

[17:31]  You: hybrid car is necessary

 

[17:32]  You: at every level of production and consumption, for example.

 

[17:32]  Geda Hax is Online

 

[17:32]  You: Why not?

 

[17:32]  You: IN this sense, information technology can save us

 

[17:32]  You: The automobile industry has vested interests against this

 

[17:32]  You: The mejaor interests - oil and power companies - have amortgage on the future.

 

[17:33]  You: After the debacles of power loss in Californiaa around the turn of the millenium people

 

[17:33]  You: in California are afraid of having no electricty

 

[17:34]  You: This retractable drousing, by computers, however, can make a transformation of models of habitat

 

[17:34]  You: If we identify which problems are soluable by information technology

 

[17:35]  You: Information technology creates the possibility of sustainable development

 

[17:35]  You: The transformation of the model of production and consumption vis-a-vis living is possible

 

[17:36]  You: Knowing and inputting could provide tools that make possible sustainable development

 

[17:36]  You: Things won't change unless however the enviornmental changes them

 

[17:36]  You: environmental *movement

 

[17:36]  You: Things never change without impetus from the outside

 

[17:37]  You: -pressure is needed

 

[17:37]  You: - and alternative models, which enlightened segments of elites might change.

 

[17:37]  You: A storng envionrmental movement - an extraordinary movement -

 

[17:37]  You: organized in and aournd the Internet

 

[17:38]  You: can mobilize pressures and camapigns

 

[17:38]  You: in business

 

[17:38]  Michele Mrigesh is Online

 

[17:38]  You: and politically

 

[17:38]  You: 1) knowledge!

 

[17:38]  You: So information technology offers

 

[17:38]  You: and 2) a political tool!

 

[17:38]  You: Today the greatest fears is

 

[17:39]  You: a great fear - in polls about information technology

 

[17:39]  You: the creation of a kind of "Frankenstein"

 

[17:40]  You: of monsters that develop out of the abilities of science

 

[17:40]  You: In Europe, you had mad cow diesease, and foot and mouth disease

 

[17:40]  You: and these had to do with bad health controls and feeding practices.

 

[17:40]  You: And this fits with ancestral fears of genetic maniplation

 

[17:41]  You: The vision of 500,000 cows killed and burned in the night

 

[17:41]  You: strikes fear in people, that you are

 

[17:41]  You: -out of control

 

[17:41]  You: - creating monsters

 

[17:41]  You: And the notion of sensors everywhere

 

[17:42]  You: i.e. visions that emerge out of the MIT media lab, and Cal Tech, for example - scare people

 

[17:42]  You: And this fear is connected to genetic implants

 

[17:42]  You: And all of this isn't science fiction

 

[17:42]  You: Bil Joy, one of the creators of UNIX at UC Berkeley

 

[17:42]  You: Bil Joy, one of the creators of UNIX at UC Berkeley

 

[17:43]  You: - pbulshed an artile in "Wired" explaining

 

[17:43]  You: the dangers of technology

 

[17:43]  You: around the turn of the millenium

 

[17:43]  You: It was critical of trends in robotics

 

[17:44]  You: wher researchers have already produced self reproducing robots

 

[17:44]  Abigail Tinkel is Offline

 

[17:45]  You: All already

 

[17:45]  You: self reproducing robots - which are programmed to have this capability

 

[17:45]  You: scare peopel

 

[17:46]  You: Here's Bill Joy's "the Future Doesn't Need Us"

 

[17:46]  You: http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy_pr.html

 

[17:47]  You: Some of the most telling things are nanotechnoloyg inside bodies

 

[17:47]  You: Agents inside our bodies are doing nice things

 

[17:47]  You: but are growing fear in the world

 

[17:47]  You: - that we have unleashed a revolution wihtout

 

[17:47]  You: moral, ethical, social, and political control

 

[17:47]  Michele Mrigesh is Offline

 

[17:48]  You: Technology ahead of social, mental, instituional abilities to control them scare people

 

[17:48]  You: Just a few more things before we close -- Nuclear technology bombs

 

[17:49]  You: The notion that the way to control is by stopping threats is unrealastic

 

[17:49]  You: For some reason, our species lieks to experiment

 

[17:49]  You: And the level of technical capacity is way beyond - on a large scale - what people think

 

[17:50]  You: There's kind of a mentality where if you have a toy, you play

 

[17:50]  You: And the most fundamental challenge is when you say

 

[17:50]  You: We are the government

 

[17:50]  You: that controls, regulates and adapts these technologies

 

[17:51]  You: WHO IS WE?

 

[17:51]  You: Becuase who we is isn't obvious

 

[17:51]  Michele Mrigesh is Online

 

[17:51]  You: Who are the actors?

 

[17:51]  You: It's literally impossible to control what's happened in society

 

[17:52]  You: Are they governemnts?

 

[17:52]  You: what are the institutions?

 

[17:52]  You: How do we control these?

 

[17:52]  You: How do people organize?

 

[17:52]  You: Now we have extrordinary mistrusts

 

[17:52]  You: and a great incapacity of government to control trends

 

[17:53]  You: And th egovernment is accelarting trends.

 

[17:53]  You: And there's still a reliance on party politics

 

[17:53]  You: on bureaucrats

 

[17:53]  You: moey

 

[17:53]  You: and politicians who want re-election

 

[17:53]  You: Who will control this Information Technology revolution?

 

[17:53]  You: Business?

 

[17:54]  You: Corporate business is showing

 

[17:54]  You: responsbility, but they don't have the role to control these processes?

 

[17:54]  Morrhys Graysmark is Online

 

[17:54]  You: And you don't want business to control this

 

[17:55]  You: Well, grass roots' organizations can influence some change

 

[17:55]  You: but independent from busienss or government

 

[17:55]  You: There are very few grass roots organziations, however, that can organize society

 

[17:56]  You: and some are dependent on churches

 

[17:56]  You: but a spiritual role can't organize society.

 

[17:56]  You: So, Civil Society is weak

 

[17:56]  You: And government can't control

 

[17:56]  You: and it isn't businesses role to control

 

[17:57]  You: So, going back to governemnt

 

[17:57]  You: Which kind of government do we want?

 

[17:57]  You: And how can that be generated?

 

[17:57]  You: That's where the equation is still unsolved

 

[17:57]  You: How to reconstruct solutions ?

 

[17:57]  You: - so that people can establish paths to technological change?

 

[17:58]  You: If we define where the problem is, we can design solutions

 

[17:58]  You: And the problem lies in the collapse of the public sphere

 

[17:58]  You: Political institutions are lagging way behind

 

[17:58]  You: -technologies

 

[17:58]  You: -markets

 

[17:59]  You: There are sophisticated individuals

 

[17:59]  You: But they all don't make a society.

 

[17:59]  You: And the inability to tackle these challenges leads to others

 

[17:59]  You: where the collectivization of individuals is offset by me first

 

[18:00]  You: We still need some backup system of family, community

 

[18:00]  You: but this is old

 

[18:00]  You: And the last 20 years have changed a lot

 

[18:00]  You: We're on teh threshold a pure collection of individuals

 

[18:00]  You: which will decrease the capacity of society.

 

[18:01]  You: So that's enough for this evening.

 

[18:01]  You: Questions? Observations?

 

[18:01]  You: i'll post the transcript here - http://socinfotech.pbwiki.com/April-16-2008-Soc-and-Info-Tech-class-transcript

 

[18:01]  Jayne Urqhart: thank you so much, Aphilo - fascinating as usual

 

[18:02]  You: Thanks, Jayne!

 

[18:02]  You: And thanks for coming!

 

[18:02]  Claryssa Schmidt: thanks Aphilo

 

[18:02]  You: Next week - the digital divide

 

[18:02]  Rain Ninetails: :)

 

[18:02]  Jayne Urqhart: you mentioned that there may be plans for extending the schedule?

 

[18:02]  You: Thanks Claryssa, Rain

 

[18:02]  You: Boston . . .

 

[18:02]  01 Hifeng: interesting, thanks :)

 

[18:02]  You: I'm still deliberating about that Jayne . . .

 

[18:02]  You: Thanks 01 Hifeng!

 

[18:03]  Luna Bliss is Offline

 

[18:03]  Boston Hutchinson: I see two problems in solving the "crisis" you have identified: 1. can we identify specific risks soon enough? 2. Can we do anything about them?

 

[18:03]  You: On the societal level, they are so many and involved, Boston,

 

[18:04]  You: that it makes solving them problematic indeed

 

[18:04]  Boston Hutchinson: Well, we failed to identify the mortgage crisis.

 

[18:04]  Boston Hutchinson: We failed to fix global warming.

 

[18:04]  You: Even with the ability of IT to offer ways of analyzing and desinging solutions, the societal processes in the aggregate, especially concerning governance

 

[18:04]  You: aren't obvious,

 

[18:04]  Boston Hutchinson: Two different kinds of failures.

 

[18:04]  You: so I'm skeptical, Boston

 

[18:05]  Alexicon Kurka is Offline

 

[18:05]  You: I have to get out of the cafe where i am

 

[18:05]  Boston Hutchinson: But maybe we could solve other problems if the vested interests are not so strong.

 

[18:05]  You: Yes, little bits at a time

 

[18:06]  You: so to speak :)

 

[18:06]  Claryssa Schmidt is Offline

 

[18:06]  Boston Hutchinson: The hypothetical "gray goo" problem is in nobody's interest to tolerate, for example, unlike global warming.

 

[18:07]  You: problematic

 

[18:07]  You: and national sovereingty issues vs the U.N. history make global governacne

 

[18:08]  Boston Hutchinson: On the other hand, nobody wants gray goo or nuclear war.

 

[18:08]  Boston Hutchinson: A lot of people (oil companies) don't want to fix global warming.

 

[18:09]  You: True, and corporations are more profitable in peace

 

[18:10]  Boston Hutchinson: So maybe there is a will to prevent these things, the extinction problems, as opposed to the lesser disasters.

 

[18:10]  You: So a strong environmental movement will continue - Al Gores' campaign

 

[18:10]  You: for example - the societal costs of global warming are ginormous

 

[18:11]  Morrhys Graysmark is Offline

 

[18:11]  You: Let's hope so . . .

 

[18:11]  You: enormous . . . so I have to go . . . See you soon!

 

[18:12]  Boston Hutchinson: Thanks for class.